ECT Putting Jesus on trial.

[Faither]

Starting this second thread, when the community didn't do so well on "pisteuo" probably isn't a good idea. But i want to shine some light from a different prospective on the "believing" that so many find hard to let go of.

I've shown that believe, believing, and believer are mistranslations for the Greek word "pisteuo used 248 times in the NT, thats a fact!

So lets look at another popular false understanding, concerning everyones favorite Scripture, Romans 10:17.

Romans 10:17 says, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the Word of God."

On the surface, and even to well trained theologians, Rom. 10:17 is cut and dry. God gives us the hearing to understand Scripture, and as a result, we recieve "faith".

There's one really big problem with this understanding.

The word "hearing" is "akoe" in the Greek texts. And "akoe" Has all the surface definitions that one would expect. But as for Rom. 10:17, the word "hearing" is associated with the fact that a "desicion is being made". And the strongs goes onto say "compare a courtroom hearing".

Well that should get your attention, because i don't know about you, but if my understanding includes putting Jesus on the stand with me as His jury, thats a big problem!

Who's on trial here? It's surely not Jesus, His work is finished. And who are we to put Him up on the stand to decide whether or not He's worthy of our surrender.

No! We are the ones on trial! And i can show how I think Rom. 10:17 should read as per the Greek definition. I'm going to add one letter, and it will bring Rom. 10:17 into the correct understanding.

Wrong understanding: Puts God on trial.
Romans 10:17 says, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the Word of God."

Right understanding: puts us (or our faithing) on trial.
Romans 10:17 says, "So then faith comes by "A" hearing, and "A" hearing from the Word of God."

All i've done is add the letter "A" in front of the word "hearing", and it takes Jesus off the courtroom stand, and puts our faithing (or surrendering) there in place of it. This also brings the word "hearing" or "akoe" to its correct usage, unperverting Gods Word.

In conclusion: Faith comes by "A" hearing, a courtroom hearing! And "A" courtroom hearing "BY" the Word of God, JESUS OUR CHRIST.

Oh, i almost forgot. Being in a constant state of "believing" is the same as putting Christ on trial. If continually in a state of believing, "We" are making the decision that Jesus is worthy of our Belief". Which is putting Him on trial, and is a false understanding.

 

[Danoh]

The more you post your fool readings, the less respect I have for your supposed wisdom.

You are an incompetent through and through.

In that passage, Paul is merely summarizing what he has been talking about.

In this, the Greek ALONE is fool's gold of an error.

That section of Romans...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

In light of all that - the actual sense of verse 17 is "so then, the opportunity to believe on Jesus is made available by sending preachers to preach the Word of God to them about His Son that they might hear of Him, and by that know of Him, and believe on Him."

The very next two passages continuing that very thought...

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

:doh: :doh: :doh:

 

[Faither]

The more you post your fool readings, the less respect I have for your supposed wisdom.

You are an incompetent through and through.

In that passage, Paul is merely summarizing what he has been talking about.

In this, the Greek ALONE is fool's gold of an error.

That section of Romans...

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

In light of all that - the actual sense of verse 17 is "so then, the opportunity to believe on Jesus is made available by sending preachers to preach the Word of God to them about His Son that they might hear of Him, and by that know of Him, and believe on Him."

The very next two passages continuing that very thought...

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

:doh: :doh: :doh:

Than this fool is out.

 

[Danoh]

Than this fool is out.

What's the matter; caught absolutely off red handed?

Better check that pride...

 

[Tambora]

I've shown that believe, believing, and believer are mistranslations for the Greek word "pisteuo used 248 times in the NT, thats a fact!

Believe, believing, and believer are just fine as translations.

 

[patrick jane]

Oh, i almost forgot. Being in a constant state of "believing" is the same as putting Christ on trial. If continually in a state of believing, "We" are making the decision that Jesus is worthy of our Belief". Which is putting Him on trial, and is a false understanding.

Some folks don't do well with scripture. You're one of them

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Greek word ἀκοή akoē is used to translate the Hebrew word שָׁמַע shama`, as shown by these two verses:

Matthew 13:14 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing G189 ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:​

Isaiah 6:9 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.​

The word שָׁמַע shama` means to "hear and obey" or "hear and pay attention".

Any attempt to make ἀκοή akoē mean "put someone on trial" is a pure lie about the word.

 

[Nick M]

God put "Jesus" on trial. Show some respect you heathen. And it pleased him to do so.

 

[Danoh]

The Greek word ἀκοή akoē is used to translate the Hebrew word שָׁמַע shama`, as shown by these two verses:

Matthew 13:14 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing G189 ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:​

Isaiah 6:9 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.​

The word שָׁמַע shama` means to "hear and obey" or "hear and pay attention".

Any attempt to make ἀκοή akoē mean "put someone on trial" is a pure lie about the word.

Good post - that is also exactly why things would at times end up "hidden from" the Twelve's "understanding" - those times when, hearing, they'd hear not, only to turn to their own reasoning, though the Living Word was right there for them to simply ask Him.

Judas betrayed Him in his own (Judas' wisdom).

Peter first rebuked Him in his own wisdom, denied Him in his own wisdom, and was later still relying on his own wisdom when he first found out He had risen and doubted it.

The key they would at times drop the ball of?

Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Said obeying in their case being...

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

As David had done in the face of "what the heck might this mean!"

Despite what had to have been a very trying time in his life as he'd looked all about him, we read...

Psalms 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty. 27:13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

The Twelve and the other disciples would drop this ball at times, and by that keep things "hidden from their understanding" that they could have understood had they but consistently followed the practice of simply taking Him at His Word whenever they found themselves "wondering what this should mean."

Instead we read of their every so often having dropped the ball that is "well, it is what He said; that's good enough for me..."

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. 24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; 24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. 24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Some time later, Peter merely had to be reminded of the error that had been theirs back then, and he was fine...

Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Acts 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 10:29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

Likwise as to his fellow Apostles... they had all learned that faith and understanding are tied to one another...

Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, 11:3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. 11:4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 11:10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Likewise James...

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

"Faith is the evidence...the substance...through faith we understand..." Heb. 11:1-3.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word ἀκοή akoē is used to translate the Hebrew word שָׁמַע shama`, as shown by these two verses:

Matthew 13:14 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing G189 ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:​

Isaiah 6:9 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.​

The word שָׁמַע shama` means to "hear and obey" or "hear and pay attention".

Any attempt to make ἀκοή akoē mean "put someone on trial" is a pure lie ab


_____________________________________________________________________________
Origins[edit]
Main article: Proto-Greek language
Further information: Hellenic languages

Proto-Greek area according to linguist Vladimir I. Georgiev
There are several theories about the origins of the Greek language. One theory suggests that it originated with a migration of proto-Greek speakers into the Greek peninsula, which is dated to any period between 2500 BC and 1700 BC. Another theory maintains that the migration into Greece occurred at a pre-proto-Greek (late PIE) stage, and the characteristic Greek sound-changes occurred later.

Mycenaean Greek[edit]
The first known script for writing Greek was the Linear B syllabary, used for the archaic Mycenaean dialect. Linear B was not deciphered until 1953. After the fall of the Mycenaean civilization during the Bronze Age collapse, there was a period of about five hundred years when writing was either not used or nothing has survived to the present day. Since early classical times, Greek has been written in the Greek alphabet.

Ancient Greek dialects[edit]
Main articles: Ancient Greek dialects and Ancient Greek

Distribution of Greek dialects in the classical period
In the archaic and classical periods, there were three main dialects of the Greek language: Aeolic, Ionic, and Doric, corresponding to the three main tribes of the Greeks, the Aeolians (chiefly living in the islands of the Aegean and the west coast of Asia Minor north of Smyrna), the Ionians (mostly settled in the west coast of Asia Minor, including Smyrna and the area to the south of it), and the Dorians (primarily the Greeks of the coast of the Pelopennesus, for example, of Sparta, Crete and the southernmost parts of the west coast of Asia Minor). Homer's Iliad and Odyssey were written in a kind of literary Ionic with some loan words from the other dialects. Ionic, therefore, became the primary literary language of ancient Greece until the ascendancy of Athens in the late 5th century. Doric was standard for Greek lyric poetry, such as Pindar and the choral odes of the Greek tragedians.

Attic Greek[edit]
Attic Greek, a subdialect of Ionic, was for centuries the language of Athens. Most surviving classical Greek literature appears in Attic Greek, including the extant texts of Plato and Aristotle, which were passed down in written form from classical times.

Koine Greek[edit]
Main article: Koine Greek

Map of the Hellenistic era
For centuries, the Greek language had existed in multiple dialects. As Greek culture under Alexander the Great (356–323 BC) and his successors spread from Asia Minor to Egypt and the border regions of India the Attic dialect became the basis of the Koiné (Κοινή; "common"). The language was also learned by the inhabitants of the regions that Alexander conquered, turning Greek into a world language. The Greek language continued to thrive after Alexander, during the Hellenistic period (323 BC to 31 BC). During this period the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, appeared.

For many centuries Greek was the lingua franca of the eastern half of the Roman Empire. It was during Roman times that the Greek New Testament appeared, and Koiné Greek is also called "New Testament Greek" after its most famous work of literature.

Medieval[edit]
Main article: Medieval Greek

Distribution of Greek dialects in Asia Minor after the fall of the Byzantine Empire. Demotic in yellow. Pontic in orange. Cappadocian Greek in green.[1]
Medieval Greek, also known as Byzantine Greek,[2] is the stage of the Greek language between the beginning of the Middle Ages around 600 and the Ottoman conquest of the city of Constantinople in 1453. The latter date marked the end of the Middle Ages in Southeast Europe. From the 7th century onwards, Greek was the only language of administration and government in the Byzantine Empire. This former stage of language is thus described as Byzantine Greek. The study of the Medieval Greek language and literature is a branch of Byzantine Studies, or Byzantinology, the study of the history and culture of the Byzantine Empire.

The beginning of Medieval Greek is occasionally dated back to as early as the 4th century, either to 330 AD, when the political centre of the monarchy was moved to Constantinople, or to 395 AD, the division of the Empire. However, this approach is rather arbitrary as it is more an assumption of political as opposed to cultural and linguistic developments. It is only after the Eastern Roman-Byzantine culture was subjected to such massive change in the 7th century that a turning point in language development can be assumed. Medieval Greek is the link between the ancient and modern forms of the language because on the one hand, its literature is still strongly influenced by Ancient Greek, while on the other hand, many linguistic features of Modern Greek were already taking shape in the spoken language.

Modern Greek[edit]
Main article: Modern Greek

The distribution of major modern Greek dialect areas
The beginning of the "modern" period of the language is often symbolically assigned to the fall of the Byzantine Empire in 1453, even though that date marks no clear linguistic boundary and many characteristic modern features of the language had already been present centuries earlier, from the fourth to the fifteenth century AD. During most of the period, the language existed in a situation of diglossia, with regional spoken dialects existing side by side with learned, archaic written forms.

After the establishment of Greece as an independent state in 1829, the Katharévusa (Καθαρεύουσα) form—Greek for "purified language"—was sanctioned as the official language of the state and the only acceptable form of Greek in Greece. The whole attempt led to a linguistic war and the creation of literary factions: the Dhimotikistés (Δημοτικιστές), who supported the common (Demotic) dialect, and the Lóyii (Λόγιοι), or Katharevusyáni (Καθαρευουσιάνοι), who supported the "purified dialect". Up to that point, use of Dhimotikí in state affairs was generally frowned upon. Use of the Demotic dialect in state speech and paperwork was forbidden.

The fall of the Junta of 1974 and the end of the era of Metapolítefsi 1974–1976 brought the acceptance of the Demotic dialect as both the de facto and de jure forms of the language for use by the Greek government, though the Katharevousa movement has left marks in the language.

Today, standard modern Greek, based on Demotic, is the official language of both Greece and Cyprus. Greek is spoken today by approximately 12–15 million people, mainly in Greece and Cyprus, but also by minority and immigrant communities in many other countries.

See also[edit]
History of the Latin language
References[edit]
Geoffrey Horrocks, Greek: A History of the Language and Its Speakers (Longman Linguistics Library). Addison Wesley Publishing Company, 1997. ISBN 0-582-30709-0

Notes[edit]
Jump up ^ Dawkins, R.M. 1916. Modern Greek in Asia Minor. A study of dialect of Silly, Cappadocia and Pharasa. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. http://archive.org/details/moderngreekinas00hallgoog
Jump up ^ "There is a pending petition for an ISO639-3 code of Medieval Greek: gkm". Sil.org.
Ex

The word "hebrew" doesn't appear once in these origins of the Greek. Greek being the most perfect language doesn't translate from possibly the worst language on the planet "hebrew".

 

[Faither]

Good post - that is also exactly why things would at times end up "hidden from" the Twelve's "understanding" - those times when, hearing, they'd hear not, only to turn to their own reasoning, though the Living Word was right there for them to simply ask Him.

Judas betrayed Him in his own (Judas' wisdom).

Peter first rebuked Him in his own wisdom, denied Him in his own wisdom, and was later still relying on his own wisdom when he first found out He had risen and doubted it.

The key they would at times drop the ball of?

Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Said obeying in their case being...

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

As David had done in the face of "what the heck might this mean!"

Despite what had to have been a very trying time in his life as he'd looked all about him, we read...

Psalms 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty. 27:13 I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

The Twelve and the other disciples would drop this ball at times, and by that keep things "hidden from their understanding" that they could have understood had they but consistently followed the practice of simply taking Him at His Word whenever they found themselves "wondering what this should mean."

Instead we read of their every so often having dropped the ball that is "well, it is what He said; that's good enough for me..."

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. 24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; 24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. 24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Some time later, Peter merely had to be reminded of the error that had been theirs back then, and he was fine...

Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Acts 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 10:29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

Likwise as to his fellow Apostles... they had all learned that faith and understanding are tied to one another...

Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, 11:3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. 11:4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,

Acts 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 11:8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 11:10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Likewise James...

Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

"Faith is the evidence...the substance...through faith we understand..." Heb. 11:1-3.

This guy says "good post" to a false statement. see post #10

 

[Tambora]

Proto-Greek

Mycenaean Greek

Ancient Greek dialects

Attic Greek

Koine Greek

Medieval Greek

Modern Greek

Which can you read, write, and speak?

 

[Faither]

Which can you read, write, and speak?

According to Eph. 4:11-13, were supposed to have gifted ministers, and their only purpose is perfecting saints.

I'm am a saint, being perfected, by a gifted teacher.

My gifted teacher not only reads all those languages fluently, he is fluent in another 10 or so on top of that. He also has the largest collection of biblical manuscripts behind to Vatican at his disposal to glean from.

But i know, you, danoh, and all the rest of the gang are way more equipped to translate Scripture than someone like that. Your problems are your self taught, and have never been taught how to listen. Listening is possibly the most important skill for someone to have, but yet they don't even teach students how to listen in school.

I needed to show that the Greek language is not translated from the Hebrew as one of your friends suggested. In fact that might be up there with the worst thing I've ever heard.

 

[Tambora]

Which can you read, write, and speak?

According to Eph. 4:11-13, were supposed to have gifted ministers, and their only purpose is perfecting saints.

I'm am a saint, being perfected, by a gifted teacher.

My gifted teacher not only reads all those languages fluently, he is fluent in another 10 or so on top of that. He also has the largest collection of biblical manuscripts behind to Vatican at his disposal to glean from.

But i know, you, danoh, and all the rest of the gang are way more equipped to translate Scripture than someone like that. Your problems are your self taught, and have never been taught how to listen. Listening is possibly the most important skill for someone to have, but yet they don't even teach students how to listen in school.

I needed to show that the Greek language is not translated from the Hebrew as one of your friends suggested. In fact that might be up there with the worst thing I've ever heard.

In other words, YOU haven't learned any of them.

There are many at TOL that have.
You have come to the wrong place if you wish to dazzle anyone with your lack of the languages.

 

[Faither]

In other words, YOU haven't learned any of them.

There are many at TOL that have.
You have come to the wrong place if you wish to dazzle anyone with your lack of the languages.

Ya, i keep hearing about all these "knowledgable ones" , and all i've gotten so far is danoh and his followers, with you cheer leading on the side. It looks like anyone with any Christness, left this place long ago. Even you! nothing but anti- christ statements come out of you. Isn't there any seeds of love in there?

You and the other self taught ones, need to remember, i'll ive done is copy the definitions of "pisteuo" out of the strongs and vines , putting them in their NT sentences. I haven't "EVER" given my opinion on anything yet. I've been attacked as if they are my opinion, but im speaking from reality, not from a place of lies.

Even this thread. Everything i posted came from the strongs defining "hearing". Not my definition tambora!

 

[Faither]

In other words, YOU haven't learned any of them.

There are many at TOL that have.
You have come to the wrong place if you wish to dazzle anyone with your lack of the languages.

30 years learning from the best. I think i'm showing some humility still calling myself his student.

 

[Danoh]

Which can you read, write, and speak?

Better yet; which has the fool actually lived in the culture of, in real time with its people?

I speak several languages fluently. At times, when I am in the actual culture of one of them, dealing with its people, even my sense of how I experience time...changes.

Out the window go "the tense" this "the mood" that, and all the rest.

"Faither" is nothing more than a fool who, having read "about" the ocean, has concluded he actually went swimming and know knows what's what.

Fact is, the man's conclusions have taken him down with the Titanic.

Lol, he's drowned on dry land.

Now THAT is one heck of an impressive accomplishment :rotfl:

 

[Danoh]

30 years learning from the best. I think i'm showing some humility still calling myself his student.

Fool - humility does not point itself out.

 

[Faither]

Better yet; which has the fool actually lived in the culture of, in real time with its people?

I speak several languages fluently. At times, when I am in the actual culture of one of them, dealing with its people, even my sense of how I experience time...changes.

Out the window go "the tense" this "the mood" that, and all the rest.

"Faither" is nothing more than a fool who, having read "about" the ocean, has concluded he actually went swimming and know knows what's what.

Fact is, the man's conclusions have taken him down with the Titanic.

Lol, he's drowned on dry land.

Now THAT is one heck of an impressive accomplishment :rotfl:

Again for what, the 20th time. I'm taking these definitions out of the Greek dictionaries, word for word. As a result, because you can't disprove the Greek, you attack me

 

[patrick jane]

Danoh is an Acts 28er