Public shaming of drug addicts - Do you think its a deterant to drug use?

[Angel4Truth]

nothing wrong with starting scrips



doctors are responsible for monitoring patient's medication usage



outside the doctor's control





yep



when they fail to uphold their responsibilities

So the doctor is still responsible when the patient takes more than prescribed, and adds to it from what they get on the streets since the doc doesnt give them enough to abuse it, because the doctor has a responsibility also to gauge how much the patient takes, is that right?

 

[ok doser]

So the doctor is still responsible when the patient takes more than prescribed, and adds to it from what they get on the streets since the doc doesnt give them enough to abuse it, because the doctor has a responsibility also to gauge how much the patient takes, is that right?

yes, ideally

 

[Angel4Truth]

yes, ideally

How can a doctor be accountable for what a person does without their knowledge just because they prescribed a substance that can be abused?

A law holding someone else accountable for the acts of another like this, would merely ensure a patient has to be in pain, because they would not risk jail by prescribing pain meds and how do you purpose they gauge how much their patient is taking and protect themselves?

Is a person not responsible for what they choose to do?

 

[ok doser]

ideally, a patient on this sort of medication would be monitored


practically, that would depend on patient compliance, which is never guaranteed, not even in the inpatient setting

 

[rexlunae]

You actually believe thats the answer to this scourge? To create a way for more people to partake?

In some cases. Better a clean, known source than an unknown source that could be cut with other things, on the streets with unclean needles. So, yes, fundamentally. Addiction is a medical problem. It should be treated like one, and that means having access to anything that helps that the patient can comply with.

And no, it doesn't allow more people to "partake". What do you think, anyone would be allowed in?

 

[Angel4Truth]

How can a doctor be accountable for what a person does without their knowledge just because they prescribed a substance that can be abused?

.... how do you purpose they gauge how much their patient is taking and protect themselves?

ideally, a patient on this sort of medication would be monitored


practically, that would depend on patient compliance, which is never guaranteed, not even in the inpatient setting

 

[Angel4Truth]

In some cases. Better a clean, known source than an unknown source that could be cut with other things, on the streets with unclean needles. So, yes, fundamentally. Addiction is a medical problem. It should be treated like one, and that means having access to anything that helps that the patient can comply with.

And no, it doesn't allow more people to "partake". What do you think, anyone would be allowed in?

Why do you think drug use now is off the charts, and do you really think the lack of stigma has nothing to do with it?

Its attitudes like yours, that allows it to increase, not only do you not decry it, you actually aid it.

 

[ok doser]

.... how do you purpose they gauge how much their patient is taking and protect themselves?

i've been out of the field now for twenty years, but toxicology analysis used to be my bread and butter - urine, serum, hair...

 

[rexlunae]

Why do you think drug use now is off the charts,

Honestly, because we've made potentially addictive pain meds too easy to prescribe, and we've allowed drug companies to push them when they aren't necessary.

... and do you really think the lack of stigma has nothing to do with it?

Its attitudes like yours, that allows it to increase, not only do you not decry it, you actually aid it.

Angel, the stigma hasn't worked. Neither has the criminality approach. In fact, this current epidemic was born with both stigma and criminality. That didn't stop it. That approach isn't working.

 

[Angel4Truth]

i've been out of the field now for twenty years, but toxicology analysis used to be my bread and butter - urine, serum, hair...

You can tell how much they are taking?

 

[ok doser]

Honestly, because we've made potentially addictive pain meds too easy to prescribe, and we've allowed drug companies to push them when they aren't necessary.

How Canada got addicted to fentanyl Manufactured in China, it easily crosses our porous borders, triggering a heroin-like bliss in users – and, all too often, death. The Globe investigates the rise of a fatal opioid It’s as easy as ordering a book online: Sign up for an account, choose a method of payment, and receive the package in three to four business days. But first, there are some choices to make. The fentanyl hydrochloride comes in a variety of quantities, ranging from a half-gram sample for $35 (U.S) to a kilogram for $21,000. It also comes in different strengths – purchasers are warned to “be careful” and do their research on the product, described as 99-per-cent pure. And of course, there are the related pharmaceutical products: the fentanyl patches, tablets and even lollipops. Buyers are assured their package won’t get seized at the Canadian border. To avoid the risk of detection, says a supplier from China, he conceals the purchase alongside urine test strips. Not that there’s reason to worry: Canadian border guards cannot open packages weighing less than 30 grams without the consent of the recipient. (A Globe and Mail reporter corresponded with sellers and suppliers using a pseudonym and did not disclose himself as a journalist, in order to obtain accurate information from the seller.) Suppliers in China hide fentanyl in decoy packages before shipping the drug to Canada. Sometimes they conceal the drug alongside urine test strips. Suppliers in China hide fentanyl in decoy packages before shipping the drug to Canada. Sometimes they conceal the drug alongside urine test strips. The supplier, who identified himself only as Alan, says he has two customers in Canada. He e-mails photos of fentanyl hidden inside silica-desiccant packets – the type normally used when shipping goods such as electronics – and a screen shot of a recent order from Canada, including a shipping address for a clothing store in British Columbia’s picturesque Okanagan Valley. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nada-got-addicted-tofentanyl/article29570025/

 

[Angel4Truth]

Honestly, because we've made potentially addictive pain meds too easy to prescribe, and we've allowed drug companies to push them when they aren't necessary.



Angel, the stigma hasn't worked. Neither has the criminality approach. In fact, this current epidemic was born with both stigma and criminality. That didn't stop it. That approach isn't working.

Again, Its been available, its when its not seen as a big deal that it gets off the charts, the wastelands in most of our cities bears out liberal policies.

 

[ok doser]

You can tell how much they are taking?

sure, depending on the frequency of testing

heck, we used to test anti-epileptics every six hours, and vancomycin every twelve

but that was for people on continuous doses - with pain meds, it's often prescribed "as needed"

 

[Angel4Truth]

Honestly, because we've made potentially addictive pain meds too easy to prescribe

In other words, ease to get and use, makes it more commonplace and you want drug rooms and easy cheap access...

Hmmm.. looks like you made my point - easy access makes more users.

 

[rexlunae]

Again, Its been available, its when its not seen as a big deal that it gets off the charts, the wastelands in most of our cities bears out liberal policies.

I think you're a bit confused about what is a liberal policy. No one thinks heroine addiction is no big deal. It's a big problem. The difference between the political persuasions is how to deal with the problem. And the problem is off the charts in rural areas, too. Face the facts: Shame and criminality doesn't prevent the problem.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I think you're a bit confused about what is a liberal policy. No one thinks heroine addiction is no big deal. It's a big problem. The difference between the political persuasions is how to deal with the problem. And the problem is off the charts in rural areas, too. Face the facts: Shame and criminality doesn't prevent the problem.

Sure it does, when there wasnt a revolving door on crime and needles being handed out to make it easier and it being called a "disease" instead of sin, taking responsibility from the user, there wasnt as much of a problem.

 

[rexlunae]

Sure it does, when there wasnt a revolving door on crime and needles being handed out to make it easier

The evidence doesn't support that view, Angel.

https://www.nap.edu/read/4975/chapter/12#217

... and it being called a "disease" instead of sin, taking responsibility from the user, there wasnt as much of a problem.

It seems to me that you're trapped in a paradigm of sin, such that you can't consider other approaches that have much higher success rates. You need to view drug use as a consequence of the fallen state of man, because you are afraid that otherwise, we might not be responsible for our actions. Well, addiction doesn't necessarily respond to moral purity.

 

[Angel4Truth]

The evidence doesn't support that view, Angel.

Sure it does, which is why drug overdoses has now surpassed all other causes of death.

You libs want to ignore everything.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, addiction doesn't necessarily respond to moral purity.

yes, it does, how do you think drug laws came to be to begin with? Their laxness now is why use is on the rise.

Jesus is the answer, not a safe place to sin.

 

[rexlunae]

yes, it does, how do you think drug laws came to be to begin with? Their laxness now is why use is on the rise.

Jesus is the answer, not a safe place to sin.

Angel, the laws haven't become more permissive regarding the drugs that are killing people. What has changed is that drug companies have won the right to market their products more broadly and doctors have been convinced to prescribe them more readily. If illegality worked, the drug epidemic wouldn't have happened at all.