Prophecy or Mystery

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

What are these secret things?
They are mysteries.
Things that have been hidden from the foundation of the world.

Before we discuss the mystery, though, I'd like to address what Peter et al had to do in order to be saved. If that doesn't bring this thread to a screeching halt, then we can move on to the mystery program revealed to Paul.


We see a great deal of prophecy about the coming Messiah who sets up a kingdom on earth, and who will save His people from their sins.

Jesus and the Apostles preached belief in Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah. Did the Jews have to believe in more than that? I don't see it anywhere. If so please point it out.

John 3:8 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Peter makes it quite clear that believers would have to wait for their sins to be blotted out when Christ returns to Judge. Notice their sins MAY be blotted out. That, of course, is dependent on if they endure to the end. They could lose their salvation if they failed to endure. They also had to keep the commandments.

1 John 1:2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Acts. 3:18-19 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Luke 2:25-32 ESV
(25) Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
(26) And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
(27) And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
(28) he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
(29) “Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word;
(30) for my eyes have seen your salvation
(31) that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
(32) a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Luke 2:25-32 ESV
(25) Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
(26) And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
(27) And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
(28) he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
(29) “Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word;
(30) for my eyes have seen your salvation
(31) that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
(32) a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”
Click to expand...
Yep, prophecy. No mystery there.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
I just saw a great "connection" between prophecy and mystery.

What we're seeing in the verse below, and in all those verses like it, is prophecy.
After lots of discussion about the kingdom being at hand and nigh, I think I finally see the reason.
Of course they thought the kingdom would be any day, at least within their lifetime. Exactly as prophesied. They were preparing to face great tribulation while having to endure to the end, after which Christ would come to set up His Kingdom. It was imminent in time to them.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

But, along came Paul and his "mystery" gospel of grace.
This nearly 2000 year church age had been hidden from the foundation.......until the Apostle Paul came on the scene.
It certainly took the Jews by surprise.

Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
musterion said:
MADs, let's admit that God would be rather foolish if what He inspired Paul to say was a previously hidden body of knowledge wasn't really previously hidden.

These people apparently believe God is a fool.
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Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
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HID IN GOD is definitely not discoverable by a man or a woman (or an angel, or anybody but God).
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Tambora said:
Jews first was done by both Peter and Paul.
No difference.
Click to expand...
"done by"? Irrelevant.

In the kingdom, it's Jews first.
Matt 15:24-28 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (15:25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (15:26) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs. (15:27) And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (15:28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Click to expand...

In the body of Christ is is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek. Gal 3:28
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Tambora said:
No it's not.
Click to expand...
Paul was not directed to the Jew first, it was just "his manner".
Peter is one of the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Tambora said:
Is it Jews first in the new heaven and new earth?
Click to expand...
Loaded question....
Tambora said:
For the new heaven and new earth.
Click to expand...
Scripture?

I know that, in the new Jerusalem, the foundation of the city is 100% Israelite. I know that in the new heaven and the new earth there is Israel and gentiles.

Rev 21:22-27 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. (21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. (21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (21:27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

There are parallel passages in Isaiah:
Isa 60:1-6 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. (60:2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. (60:3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. (60:4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at [thy] side. (60:5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. (60:6) The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

Isa 60:9-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:9) Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. (60:10) And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. (60:11) Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that [men] may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and [that] their kings [may be] brought.

Isa 60:16-22 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. (60:17) For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. (60:18) Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. (60:19) The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. (60:20) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. (60:21) Thy people also [shall be] all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. (60:22) A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Isa 62:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)
(62:1) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp [that] burneth. (62:2) And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (62:3) Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. (62:4) Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Isa 66:18-24 (AKJV/PCE)
(66:18) For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. (66:19) And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. (66:20) And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. (66:21) And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites, saith the LORD. (66:22) For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. (66:23) And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. (66:24) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
 
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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Tambora said:
It shows that Jews believed the arrival of the Messiah was for Jews and Gentiles alike.
Click to expand...
The Jews did believe that they would be the light to the Gentiles as prophecied, but they failed to recognize their King when He arrived, and so as was revealed to Paul.....

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Jews first was done by both Peter and Paul.
No difference.
Click to expand...
We should go right to the source on that one.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Paul was not directed to the Jew first, it was just "his manner".
Peter is one of the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Loaded question....

Scripture?

I know that, in the new Jerusalem, the foundation of the city is 100% Israelite. I know that in the new heaven and the new earth there is Israel and gentiles.

Rev 21:22-27 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. (21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. (21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (21:27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

There are parallel passages in Isaiah:
Isa 60:1-6 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. (60:2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. (60:3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. (60:4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at [thy] side. (60:5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. (60:6) The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

Isa 60:9-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:9) Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. (60:10) And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. (60:11) Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that [men] may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and [that] their kings [may be] brought.

Isa 60:16-22 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. (60:17) For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. (60:18) Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. (60:19) The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. (60:20) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. (60:21) Thy people also [shall be] all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. (60:22) A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Isa 62:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)
(62:1) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp [that] burneth. (62:2) And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (62:3) Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. (62:4) Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Isa 66:18-24 (AKJV/PCE)
(66:18) For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. (66:19) And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. (66:20) And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. (66:21) And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites, saith the LORD. (66:22) For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. (66:23) And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. (66:24) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Click to expand...
And as you said, RD, there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ.
 
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