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kmoney

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Those two would call themselves "Determinists" (at least last I recall from SS) and both are "MAD".

I can't help but think some hairs are being split. :plain:

:chuckle:

Do you know how they would differentiate themselves from true Calvinists?
 

Vaquero45

New member
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Wow, and i thought Hilston was a Calvinist. So what point does he differ on?

He will quickly correct someone when they call him that, he said he debates them often. I know just enough about Calvinism to know it confuses me, lol, I couldn't give you any specific differences really. I disagree with Hilston but find his view "Determinism" much easier to comprehend.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Wow, and i thought Hilston was a Calvinist. So what point does he differ on?
I can't remember off the bat but being that He is MAD, I'd say Limited Atonement and probably just a bit on Unconditional Election (like a good many Protestants).
 

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
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LIFETIME MEMBER
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mad

Army of One
assuranceagent
chickenman
Clete
DAN P
death2impiety
Delmar
ebenz47037
heir
Hilston
Jerry Shugart
john w
Knight
Lighthouse
Maximeee
MrDeets
Nick M
PKevman
Random
Robert Pate
SaulToPaul
Servo
steko
Stripe
Tambora
The Graphite
Tico
Turbo
Vaquero45
voltaire

I know there are many more
so
please help me identify them

Take my name off this list, Chrys. I'm not MAD. I agree with some of what they believe. But, I don't believe that the church began in mid-Acts.
 

Vaquero45

New member
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I can't help but think some hairs are being split. :plain:

:chuckle:

Do you know how they would differentiate themselves from true Calvinists?

Tell Hilston that, I'm sure he'd fill you in quickly. :) Actually I'd like to see that conversation. Would be interesting to see, I'll readily admit I don't understand Calvinism. The more I see it explained, the worse I understand it.

Added... no, I couldnt give you a good breakdown of the differences.
 

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
Silver Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Mr Psalmist
Totton Linnet
Andy c
Godrulz
Steko
Sky
john w

There are loads and loads of others perhaps they will add their names...I am talking about the experience not the denomination

Add me to this one because it's the closest to what I believe.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I can't help but think some hairs are being split. :plain:

:chuckle:
You have to hold all five tenents of TULIP to be a Calvinist or you have to call them something else because the whole foundation of why one is a Calvinist comes from Covenant Theology which is much different than any form of Dispensationalism. If you are any kind of dispensationalist, you aren't going to be a Calvinist, they are opposing ideas.

Do you know how they would differentiate themselves from true Calvinists?
Hilston is MAD which is similar to hyper Dispensationalism and as such, is a long way from Covenant Theology and Calvinism. It is important, because the way we read and study scripture and understand it is differently emphasized. Dispensationalists pay close attention, in all of their bible reading, to the differences between the way God works with different people, through different dispensations or ages of working His Grace. While they see all things pointing to Christ, they emphasize these differences.

Covenant Theologians, when they read scripture, are looking for what is the same and see a unified unfolding plan rather than focusing on any differences. As such we see and understand all of scripture having a greater cohesion than our dispensational counter-parts. Interestingly, because hyperdispensationalists focus on their pinacle as gentile believers, and we Covenant theologians see that same pinacle of the huge cohesive mountain of Old and New Testaments, We actually get along on quite a few points but we get there differently. MAD focuses nearly exclusively on Pauline literature. We Covenant, rather, see that literature as the culmination of the whole ball so, of course we differ too on a few important points too.
 

kmoney

New member
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You have to hold all five tenents of TULIP to be a Calvinist or you have to call them something else because the whole foundation of why one is a Calvinist comes from Covenant Theology which is much different than any form of Dispensationalism. If you are any kind of dispensationalist, you aren't going to be a Calvinist, they are opposing ideas.


Hilston is MAD which is similar to hyper Dispensationalism and as such, is a long way from Covenant Theology and Calvinism. It is important, because the way we read and study scripture and understand it is differently emphasized. Dispensationalists pay close attention, in all of their bible reading, to the differences between the way God works with different people, through different dispensations or ages of working His Grace. While they see all things pointing to Christ, they emphasize these differences.

Covenant Theologians, when they read scripture, are looking for what is the same and see a unified unfolding plan rather than focusing on any differences. As such we see and understand all of scripture having a greater cohesion than our dispensational counter-parts. Interestingly, because hyperdispensationalists focus on their pinacle as gentile believers, and we Covenant theologians see that same pinacle of the huge cohesive mountain of Old and New Testaments, We actually get along on quite a few points but we get there differently. MAD focuses nearly exclusively on Pauline literature. We Covenant, rather, see that literature as the culmination of the whole ball so, of course we differ too on a few important points too.
That is helpful but I was asking more along the lines of what points of TULIP they wouldn't adhere to. I do see that you mentioned a couple to A4T.
 

kmoney

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Tell Hilston that, I'm sure he'd fill you in quickly. :)
And make me look like a fool while doing it. :eek:

Actually I'd like to see that conversation. Would be interesting to see, I'll readily admit I don't understand Calvinism. The more I see it explained, the worse I understand it.
Yes. Now, knowing this, I'd like to see Hilston debate AMR or Lon so I could really see the differences.
 

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
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There should be a list of Open View, a list of MAD and a list of OV Mad. I bet Lighthouse would put these together if you asked him really nice.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
mad

Army of One
assuranceagent
chickenman
Clete
DAN P
death2impiety
Delmar
ebenz47037
heir
Hilston
Jerry Shugart
john w
Knight
Lighthouse
Maximeee
MrDeets
Nick M
PKevman
Random
Robert Pate
SaulToPaul
Servo
steko
Stripe
Tambora
The Graphite
Tico
Turbo
Vaquero45
voltaire

I know there are many more
so
please help me identify them


Add me to this one
 

Angel4Truth

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I can't remember off the bat but being that He is MAD, I'd say Limited Atonement and probably just a bit on Unconditional Election (like a good many Protestants).

Actually i think he believes those, he debated me on them, i don't believe those. I believe Christ died for everyone but that everyone wont receive Him and that we have free will. His position was that Christ died only for the elect and we do not have free will, and it was in a thread about calvanism, so since he took that position, i assumed he was calvanist.

I do not know of anyone outside of calvanism that believes we do not have free will or that Christ died only for the elect.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Actually i think he believes those, he debated me on them, i don't believe those. I believe Christ died for everyone but that everyone wont receive Him and that we have free will. His position was that Christ died only for the elect and we do not have free will, and it was in a thread about calvanism, so since he took that position, i assumed he was calvanist.

I do not know of anyone outside of calvanism that believes we do not have free will or that Christ died only for the elect.

As Delmar says, he prefers to avoid labels. He has, however, made it clear he isn't a Calvinist, being MAD he couldn't be.
 

Lon

Well-known member
MAD Calvinists do exist.
Perhaps Calvinistic but I think it misdiagnosed. You generally get to 5 point Calvinism by being Covenant Theology. AMR would say "no such thing."

It'd be like saying there are MAD Lutherans. They don't really go together. Lutherans aren't dispensationalists and neither are Calvinists.
 
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