Pro-Gays, is incest immoral?

glassjester

Well-known member
As I've already explained, I believe adult/adult incest increases the likelihood of emotional exploitation and abuse within families,

Any more than the emotional exploitation and abuse that takes place in non-incestuous couples?



as well as (in the case of heterosexual incest) the probability of birth defects.

Yes. I agree.

But this reasoning brings its own problems, no?
Is there a certain level of acceptable risk of birth defects, below which we "allow" people to reproduce? Surely there are non-incestuous couples that, due to the genes or behaviors of one or both members, bear just as great a risk of birth defect. Yet we do not ban their marriages.

And of course there's the horrendous truth that, in a legal system fully accepting of contraception and abortion, risks of birth defects make for a weak legal argument.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Any more than the emotional exploitation and abuse that takes place in non-incestuous couples?
Absolutely. "Incest", by definition, indicates sexual relationships among family members. Even if these are limited to consenting adults, the fact that it is accepted at all implies acceptance before adulthood, or between adults and offspring. We are all far more vulnerable to manipulation and abuse from family members than from outsiders. So to allow incest, even just among connecting adults, I believe would dramatically increase the likelihood of emotional and sexual exploitation and abuse among family members of any age.
Is there a certain level of acceptable risk of birth defects, below which we "allow" people to reproduce? Surely there are non-incestuous couples that, due to the genes or behaviors of one or both members, bear just as great a risk of birth defect. Yet we do not ban their marriages.
Yes, which is why I would not base such a decision on the probability of birth defects, alone. But in conjunction with the increased likelihood of sexual exploitation and abuse within families, I would be comfortable discouraging it in general. However, when it came to the rule of law, we would probably want to stipulate instances in which it may not be prosecuted.
And of course there's the horrendous truth that, in a legal system fully accepting of contraception and abortion, risks of birth defects make for a weak legal argument.
Not really, because it would be nearly impossible to make a law forcing an incestuous pregnancy to be aborted. Which means the abortion issue would have no applicable bearing on the incest issue.
 

MrDante

New member
Ok. Except I do not believe I ever included pedophilia on that slippery slope.

My hypothesis, in this thread, was that no one could defend homosexuality/homosexual marriage without defending incest/incestuous marriage, as well.

By the same token no one can defend interracial marriage without defending incestuous marriage as well.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Even if these are limited to consenting adults, the fact that it is accepted at all implies acceptance before adulthood,

This is a concern among the anti-homosexual crowd, as well. "If we make it ok for consenting adults, the children will think it's ok, too!"

To which the pro-homosexual replies, "But if there's nothing wrong with an adult being gay, why should you be allowed to discourage your kid from being gay?"
 

glassjester

Well-known member
By the same token no one can defend interracial marriage without defending incestuous marriage as well.

Oh, you old so-and-so.
40622263.jpg
 

MrDante

New member
Any more than the emotional exploitation and abuse that takes place in non-incestuous couples?





Yes. I agree.

But this reasoning brings its own problems, no?
Is there a certain level of acceptable risk of birth defects, below which we "allow" people to reproduce? Surely there are non-incestuous couples that, due to the genes or behaviors of one or both members, bear just as great a risk of birth defect. Yet we do not ban their marriages.

And of course there's the horrendous truth that, in a legal system fully accepting of contraception and abortion, risks of birth defects make for a weak legal argument.

this line of reasoning is awfully familiar...
 

MrDante

New member
This is a concern among the anti-homosexual crowd, as well. "If we make it ok for consenting adults, the children will think it's ok, too!"

To which the pro-homosexual replies, "But if there's nothing wrong with an adult being gay, why should you be allowed to discourage your kid from being gay?"

and how do you "discourage a child discourage your kid from being gay?" Aside from horrific amounts of physical and emotional abuse.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
An illegality of interracial marriage has ancient origins. Tribes would not allow sexual or romantic relations with others because it would cause scandal.

And that lived on and on all the way up to recent history.

As well, before American slavery you probably wouldn't have seen a person who wasn't white in your entire life unless they were illustrated in a book :rolleyes:

Most of mankind's history has been naturally segregated.
 

MrDante

New member
An illegality of interracial marriage has ancient origins. Tribes would not allow sexual or romantic relations with others because it would cause scandal.

And that lived on and on all the way up to recent history.

first: this a logical fallacy specifically an appeal to history or tradition.

Second: Who did Abraham marry?
 

glassjester

Well-known member
That's not the problem I was pointing out. It's your classification of both "gays and incest" as "fruity."

Incest is always disgusting, but not always fruity. I was just referring to the two brothers.

Anyway, do you have a problem with the idea of two brothers marrying?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Incest is always disgusting, but not always fruity. I was just referring to the two brothers.

You said: "Either way" to sod's "gay and incest."

As long as you attempt to group homosexual behavior with incestuous behavior, it's a waste of time for us to go around in circles. I thought we already agreed on that?
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Incest is largely about one's nuclear family. Marrying your 4th cousin is not incest, in fact that sort of thing was pretty standard when the world wasn't so big as it is now.

In fact, there's been studies that this is something mankind was built to do, as it has an optimal genetic turnout.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
So should those brothers get married, or what?

No. But then as you know, I already told you that.

You're going back over ground we already covered. (Integrity of the immediate family unit, etc.)


If you want to back over ground already covered, you could go back to Cain...
 
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