possibilities

[ebenz47037]

I would hardly call my fight with EM a "difficulty." Believe me, I'm here to stay. I did not mean to say that our differences in theology would cause me to have difficulty. But it seems as though the rep system has become tied in with whether you like Enyart or not, unless you are Nori. Nori has it spot on I think. I should try to be like her. But I won't be afraid to speak my mind though, consistant with the Scriptures, of course

Well, thank you for the compliment. All I can tell you is that I'm honest with people, no matter what. I would rather hurt someone with the truth than to damage my integrity with any kind of lie. I think that's one reason Knight made me a moderator here.

I'm probably pretty far, as far as beliefs go, from most of the open theists here. I'm pentecostal. I believe that healings and gifts of the Spirit are still going on today. If I've read them correctly, open theists believe that sign gifts ceased in the New Testament. I have read The Plot. I agree with parts of it and don't agree with other parts. I believe in free will. But, I also believe that some things are pre-destined.

As for my recommendations on The Plot, I think it is a good book if you have a hard time understanding the Bible. But, if you don't have a hard time understanding the Bible, IMHO, you will be disappointed by what you get from The Plot.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm probably pretty far, as far as beliefs go, from most of the open theists here. I'm pentecostal. I believe that healings and gifts of the Spirit are still going on today. If I've read them correctly, open theists believe that sign gifts ceased in the New Testament. I have read The Plot. I agree with parts of it and don't agree with other parts. I believe in free will. But, I also believe that some things are pre-destined.

Bob believes that some things are predestined, as well. So do I. So do all the open theists I know.

And it is Acts 9 Dispensationalists, not open theists, who believe the sign gifts have either ceased, or are not as rampant as some believe. A person can be both an OVer, and an Acts 9er. Bob is both. So am I.

I fall into the category of those who think the gifts do still exist, but are not as rampant, or necessary today, as they were right after Christ's ascension. But they will become necessary again, in the Tribulation. All Acts 9ers believe that last part, as far as I know.

And, fyi, the most focused on sign gift started in the New Testament, as well.

 

[Delmar]

.... I believe in free will. But, I also believe that some things are pre-destined.

So do you believe that some things are not predestined?

 

[ebenz47037]

Bob believes that some things are predestined, as well. So do I. So do all the open theists I know.

And it is Acts 9 Dispensationalists, not open theists, who believe the sign gifts have either ceased, or are not as rampant as some believe. A person can be both an OVer, and an Acts 9er. Bob is both. So am I.

I fall into the category of those who think the gifts do still exist, but are not as rampant, or necessary today, as they were right after Christ's ascension. But they will become necessary again, in the Tribulation. All Acts 9ers believe that last part, as far as I know.

And, fyi, the most focused on sign gift started in the New Testament, as well.

I pretty much agree with you, Lighthouse. My problem is that I know a lot of calvinist/closed viewers who believe that the future is already completely written, both good and bad. I also know some open viewers who believe that the future is completely unwritten except for what it says in the New Testament about the end days.

 

[ebenz47037]

So do you believe that some things are not predestined?

Things like murders, rapes, and child molestations happen because of men choosing to do them.

As to natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanos, floods, famines, etc), we live on a volatile planet; especially since the flood.

I don't believe that God causes all things (good and bad) to happen, but that He will use them to strengthen/test us.

I lean more toward predestination than open theism, though. I do believe that with some people, God has written more of their future than with everyone else. I don't believe that about everyone though. I also believe that we have to choose to follow Him. I don't know if I believe that only so many are His elect and the rest are going to hell.

 

[Delmar]

Things like murders, rapes, and child molestations happen because of men choosing to do them.

As to natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanos, floods, famines, etc), we live on a volatile planet; especially since the flood.

I don't believe that God cause all things (good and bad) to happen, but that He will use them to strengthen/test us.

Ok here's a quick test to see if you believe the future is open. to an extent. Do you think God know's, right now, who will win the 2017 world series?

 

[ebenz47037]

Ok here's a quick test to see if you believe the future is open. to an extent. Do you think God know's, right now, who will win the 2017 world series?

I don't know if He knows or is interested in the 2017 world series. :chuckle: Honestly, that's something that I lean toward saying no, but I don't know if God knows that or not.

 

[ebenz47037]

Let me put it this way. I'm open to the idea that the future is open. But, I don't know. God's ways are not our own. The ways of God are a mystery to man. Because He loved me enough to accept me as I am, broken and dirty, I accept Him as He is even without knowing all about Him.

 

[Delmar]

Let me put it this way. I'm open to the idea that the future is open. But, I don't know. God's ways are not our own. The ways of God are a mystery to man. Because He loved me enough to accept me as I am, broken and dirty, I accept Him as He is even without knowing all about Him.

Sure! :up:

 

[Lighthouse]

Nori-
Do you believe the Bible could point to the truth on the matter? And, if it does, would you accept it?

 

[ebenz47037]

IMHO, Lighthouse, the Bible supports both sides of the predestination/free will arguement. That's why I say I'm somewhere in the middle of it. And, that's why I say, that with His infinite wisdom, God created us with finite brains. I don't think that our own finite brains can accurately understand God. I know that there is scripture supporting open theism. I also know that there is scripture supporting predestination.

 

[Frank Ernest]

I believe the best example of free will vs divine will is recounted in the Book of Jonah.
God does what He needs to do to accomplish what He wants to accomplish. He uses individuals, groups, governments, armies, you name it.
I believe the future is "closed" only in that God has said certain events MUST happen.
God says it is His will that all should come to Him, but He knows that some will not. ALL will have the opportunity, some will refuse to their everlasting condemnation.
How God does this and keeps it all straight is a mystery to me and will probably remain so until I have my opportunity to ask Jesus.

God will not interfere with my free will as it is up to me alone to make the decisions that conform to His will. I ask guidance from the Holy Spirit and study the Word in order to figure that out. I have the simple and concise teachings of scripture, Follow Me and do My commandments. I may not follow them perfectly in some instances and there is the merciful God to get me across the rough spots.

Right now, my merciful God is kicking my butt on Scripture Study. He has sent other people to help me with it. A number of them are on ToL.

Amen.

 

[Lighthouse]

IMHO, Lighthouse, the Bible supports both sides of the predestination/free will arguement. That's why I say I'm somewhere in the middle of it. And, that's why I say, that with His infinite wisdom, God created us with finite brains. I don't think that our own finite brains can accurately understand God. I know that there is scripture supporting open theism. I also know that there is scripture supporting predestination.

I quite agree. The Scripture supports free-will, and predestination. But it does not support predestination of all events for all time. And it supports that the future is not completely settled, but that soem of it is. That is why I am an open theist.

 

[ebenz47037]

I quite agree. The Scripture supports free-will, and predestination. But it does not support predestination of all events for all time. And it supports that the future is not completely settled, but that soem of it is. That is why I am an open theist.

I didn't say I believe in predestination for all events in time.

 

[Lighthouse]

I know that. I didn't mean to imply that you did.

 

[logos_x]

yes, mr 5020. i had a cool discussion with logos x about universalism.

Yep..it was cool.

i am not a universalist.

I don't care what i'm known for.

Nobody's perfect. :angel: