POPE SAYS JESUS WAS A FAILURE

[glassjester]

Yes, what the apostles taught and what the holy spirit inspired are not erroneous.

I think we're still in complete agreement.


Undoubtedly, the apostles were given the mission and the authority to teach the faith to others by Christ Himself.

Was there to be no one teaching others after the apostles? Or were they to have successors?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

The pope is the anti-Christ.

 

[aikido7]

Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure..."

"humanly speaking."

Humanly.

All Jews knew that the Messiah was not supposed to be a martyr and die. According to religious tradition, a messiah was to be an anointed military king who would fight on the battlefield against the enemies of Israel.

But Jesus died. That was not supposed to happen. He died a death some theologians have called "the scandal of the cross." He was crucified, dead, and was buried. This is what is evident when we use the term "humanly speaking."

Any objective observer of history would see the same thing: Jesus on a cross, suffering, then dying.

It was the early Christians who soon recognized Jesus's Power and Presence was still with them even after Jesus died.

This is the meaning of the resurrection. And it is more than evident that the pope believes in this theological overlay.

 

[glassjester]

The pope is the anti-Christ.

Thanks for contributing!

 

[HisServant]

I think we're still in complete agreement.


Undoubtedly, the apostles were given the mission and the authority to teach the faith to others by Christ Himself.

Was there to be no one teaching others after the apostles? Or were they to have successors?

If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Give the sordid history of those that stick to the doctrine of Apostolic Succession.... and we are to judge things based on its fruit, I think its a no-brainer that Jesus nor the Apostles want anything to do with your apostolic successors.

 

[disturbo]

If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Give the sordid history of those that stick to the doctrine of Apostolic Succession.... and we are to judge things based on its fruit, I think its a no-brainer that Jesus nor the Apostles want anything to do with your apostolic successors.

From the first century Didache...

15 Appoint Bishops for Yourselves

15:1 Appoint bishops for yourselves, as well as deacons, worthy of the Lord, of meek disposition, unattached to money, truthful and proven; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers.

15:2 Do not despise them, after all, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers.

15:3 And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the gospel. But to anyone who acts amiss against another, let no one speak to him, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the gospel of our Lord.

 

[everready]

The Sovereign Pontiff

The Sovereign Pontiff

An explanation of those keys everyone talks about can be found here:

If there be any who imagine that there is some occult and mysterious virtue in an apostolic succession that comes through the Papacy, let them seriously consider the real character of the Pope's own orders, and of those of his bishops and clergy. From the Pope downwards, all can be shown to be now radically Babylonian. The College of Cardinals, with the Pope at its head, is just the counterpart of the Pagan College of Pontiffs, with its "Pontifex Maximus," or "Sovereign Pontiff," which had existed in Rome from the earliest times, and which is known to have been framed on the model of the grand original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon.

The Pope now pretends to supremacy in the Church as the successor of Peter, to whom it is alleged that our Lord exclusively committed the keys of the kingdom of heaven. But here is the important fact that, till the Pope was invested with the title, which for a thousand years had had attached to it the power of the keys of Janus and Cybele, * no such claim to pre-eminence, or anything approaching to it, was ever publicly made on his part, on the ground of his being the possessor of the keys bestowed on Peter.

We're talking about two different Peter's here, the one Jesus knows and the one Rome presents.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/sect61.htm


everready

 

[glassjester]

If it were important, it would have been written down either as scripture or in some ancient document.... we have no evidence that Apostles appointed their successor.

Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?

 

[Right Divider]

Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?

False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. ​

If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

 

[Cruciform]

POPE SAYS JESUS WAS A FAILURE

Sorry, but you're just...well, an idiot. Please properly educate yourself on a subject before presuming to comment on a public forum; you might avoid further embarrassment.

On this topic, see this.


End of thread.

 

[kiwimacahau]

False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. ​

If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

Heiferdust!

 

[glassjester]

False dilemma.

Paul is OUR pattern.

1 Tim 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. ​

If you're using Peter as you pattern instead of Paul, you are outside of God's will.

And what does this have to do with teaching authority?


Here's where I left off with His Servant:

Given two people who read scripture and come to different, mutually exclusive conclusions - against what standard or authority can they determine which is orthodox? Jesus would not leave us as orphans. He told His followers that they would have with them forever, the Spirit of Truth.

We know that Christ could not teach error. We know that the apostles could not teach error, because they were given authority to teach others by Christ Himself.

The apostles did give others authority to teach, too. Did they not?

 

[HisServant]

From the first century Didache...

15 Appoint Bishops for Yourselves

15:1 Appoint bishops for yourselves, as well as deacons, worthy of the Lord, of meek disposition, unattached to money, truthful and proven; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers.

15:2 Do not despise them, after all, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers.

15:3 And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the gospel. But to anyone who acts amiss against another, let no one speak to him, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the gospel of our Lord.

Yup, congrgational rule.... they appointed their own leaders. The pope, cardinals and bishops did not appoint themselves or appoint each other... then congregation submitted to leaders that they chose... and they could alsombe removed by those that appointed them.

 

[HisServant]

Bah

 

[Ben Masada]

Pope Francis - Jesus Was a Failure?

Jimmy Akin

September 29, 2015

In his recent homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral,

Pope Francis said that Jesus was a failure.

In his Sept. 24 vespers homily at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, addressing a group of priests Pope Francis said:

We have been entrusted with a great responsibility, and God’s people rightly expect accountability from us.

But the true worth of our apostolate is measured by the value it has in God’s eyes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see and evaluate things from God’s perspective calls for constant conversion

in the first days and years of our vocation and, need I say, it calls for great humility.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember

that we are followers of Jesus and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure,

in the failure of the cross.
==================================================

Speaking as a Christian, I agree with the Pope. Jesus was indeed a failure. Nothing expected by Christianity happened with the coming of Jesus and all throughout his life. However, speaking as a Jew, since I do not believe the claims of the NT about Jesus, he was not a failure as he was not supposed to act according to the claims of Christianity.

 

[chrysostom]

I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

 

[Ben Masada]

I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

Well Chrysostom, I do have my doubts about October too.

 

[disturbo]

I don't believe Jesus was a failure
and
I don't believe francis said that He was

I don't believe anything october23 says

Like usual the Protestants do everything they can to badmouth Catholics. Pope Francis said, "Humanly speaking", Christ was a failure. He was a failure in the eyes of the Jews. They didn't accept him. He was a failure in the eyes of people in general because he ended up getting crucified. He was viewed as a lunatic.

And of course the OP omits the rest of Akins article.

 

[everready]

Like usual the Protestants do everything they can to badmouth Catholics. Pope Francis said, "Humanly speaking", Christ was a failure. He was a failure in the eyes of the Jews. They didn't accept him. He was a failure in the eyes of people in general because he ended up getting crucified. He was viewed as a lunatic.

And of course the OP omits the rest of Akins article.

How do Protestants badmouth Catholics?

everready

 

[chrysostom]

How do Protestants badmouth Catholics?

everready

they call the pope a whore