Paul And Tithing
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
Tithes and offerings is still in commandment of God. According to scriptures.
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beameup
New member
As long as there is Mosaic Judaism, which mandates a Temple served by a Levitical priesthood.
"Tithes" are a specific % (and for the priesthood);
"Offerings" for the poor are not
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17 Jesus words
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beameup
New member
Jesus "fulfilled the LAW", He fulfilled it without ever sinning.
So, He was a "sacrifice without spot or blemish".
Those who insist on abiding by the LAW are still under its curse.
Those who look to Christ with faith are no longer under a curse.
Brother understand that God still have laws which you must obey in total submission of Him. He requires us to give to the church does He not.?
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beameup
New member
You quoted Paul in 2 Thessalonians:
We worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you,
not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. [Paul was a tent-maker]
The "Law of Christ" deals with LOVE (agape, philostorgos, koinonia, phileō, philadelphia).
I said
xxx Its obvious you don't have the gift of discernment. And the only thing that your sure of comes from your imagination. I get all the verses straight from the Holy Spirit in my mind. I have been listening to Him for over 25 years now. He has never been wrong. But you have.
LAWS ON TAXES AND TITHES AND THE POOR
Rom 2:17-19 NEW TESTAMENT
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20-23
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Matt 17:24-26
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.
(NKJ)
1 Sam 8:4-22 OLD TESTAMENT TAXES (10%)
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, "Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations."
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." So Samuel prayed to the LORD.
7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
8 "According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day-- with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.
9 "Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them."
10 So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who asked him for a king.
11 And he said, "This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots.
12 "He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.
13 "He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.
14 "And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants.
15 "He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants.
16 "And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.
17 "He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants.
18 "And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day."
19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "No, but we will have a king over us,
20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the LORD.
22 So the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed their voice, and make them a king." And Samuel said to the men of Israel, "Every man go to his city."
Gen 28:22 TITHES (10%)
22 "And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Num 18:21
21 "Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.
Exod 22:25 POOR (12%)
25 "If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.
Exod 23:10-11
10 "Six years you shall sow your land and gather in its produce,
11 "but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove.
Lev 19:9-10
9 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.
10 'And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
xx The old testament tithes were what they owed to God in the church. But what they fell to speak of is what else God says they owe. They owe 10% of their income for taxes, and they also owe 12% of their income strait to the poor around them. They owed 10% for taxes. According to the old testament law of what you owed to God was 32% of your income, 10% to the church and 10% to the government, and 12% to the poor. Thank God we are not under the old testament. Now who is taking more than they have a right to?
Rom 2:17-19 NEW TESTAMENT
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20-23
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Matt 17:24-26
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.
(NKJ)
1 Sam 8:4-22 OLD TESTAMENT TAXES (10%)
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, "Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations."
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." So Samuel prayed to the LORD.
7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
8 "According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day-- with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.
9 "Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them."
10 So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who asked him for a king.
11 And he said, "This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots.
12 "He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.
13 "He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.
14 "And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants.
15 "He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants.
16 "And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.
17 "He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants.
18 "And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day."
19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "No, but we will have a king over us,
20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the LORD.
22 So the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed their voice, and make them a king." And Samuel said to the men of Israel, "Every man go to his city."
Gen 28:22 TITHES (10%)
22 "And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Num 18:21
21 "Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.
Exod 22:25 POOR (12%)
25 "If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.
Exod 23:10-11
10 "Six years you shall sow your land and gather in its produce,
11 "but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove.
Lev 19:9-10
9 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.
10 'And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
xx The old testament tithes were what they owed to God in the church. But what they fell to speak of is what else God says they owe. They owe 10% of their income for taxes, and they also owe 12% of their income strait to the poor around them. They owed 10% for taxes. According to the old testament law of what you owed to God was 32% of your income, 10% to the church and 10% to the government, and 12% to the poor. Thank God we are not under the old testament. Now who is taking more than they have a right to?
beameup
New member
The Devil knows the Word very, very well and can convey that information to you as well... "straight from the Devil in you mind", so to speak.
From what I observe, you combine verses from the Gospels along with verses from the Epistles along with Old Testament verses. A quite familiar method, as it is often used by cults.
I said
Oh, your just guessing now. Haven't you learned the Hidden Language of the Holy Spirit yet?
beameup
New member
Yes, of course :doh: John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall
not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that shall he speak: and he will teach you the
Hidden Language of the Holy Spirit.
The Squeaky-Clean Version :rotfl:
I said
Good. Then you should know the devil doesn't quote new testament. If he did his kingdom would be divided.
Matt 12:25-28
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
27 "And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
(NKJ)
Tithing was a part of the law for Israel. It was never commanded or required of disciples under the new covenant. There is absolutely no support for tithing in the new testament writings. Tithing was put upon the church in order to support the cost of clergy and buildings etc. It is categorically wrong to say that Christians should or must tithe. Christians can decide to give any percentage of their income to the church or whatever. They are free in Christ to give as their heart directs them. Tithing as a command or demand laid upon Christians is a man made rule to help guarantee enough funds to keep the church system going.
LAWS ON TAXES AND TITHES AND THE POOR
Rom 2:17-19 NEW TESTAMENT
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20-23
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Matt 17:24-26
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.
(NKJ)
1 Sam 8:4-22 OLD TESTAMENT TAXES (10%)
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, "Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations."
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." So Samuel prayed to the LORD.
7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
8 "According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day-- with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.
9 "Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them."
10 So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who asked him for a king.
11 And he said, "This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots.
12 "He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.
13 "He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.
14 "And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants.
15 "He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants.
16 "And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.
17 "He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants.
18 "And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day."
19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "No, but we will have a king over us,
20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the LORD.
22 So the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed their voice, and make them a king." And Samuel said to the men of Israel, "Every man go to his city."
Gen 28:22 TITHES (10%)
22 "And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Num 18:21
21 "Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.
Exod 22:25 POOR (12%)
25 "If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.
Exod 23:10-11
10 "Six years you shall sow your land and gather in its produce,
11 "but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove.
Lev 19:9-10
9 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.
10 'And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
xx The old testament tithes were what they owed to God in the church. But what they fell to speak of is what else God says they owe. They owe 10% of their income for taxes, and they also owe 12% of their income strait to the poor around them. They owed 10% for taxes. According to the old testament law of what you owed to God was 32% of your income, 10% to the church and 10% to the government, and 12% to the poor. Thank God we are not under the old testament. Now who is taking more than they have a right to?
Rom 2:17-19 NEW TESTAMENT
17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,
18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law,
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20-23
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Matt 17:24-26
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.
(NKJ)
1 Sam 8:4-22 OLD TESTAMENT TAXES (10%)
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,
5 and said to him, "Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations."
6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." So Samuel prayed to the LORD.
7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
8 "According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day-- with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.
9 "Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them."
10 So Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who asked him for a king.
11 And he said, "This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots.
12 "He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.
13 "He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.
14 "And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants.
15 "He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants.
16 "And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.
17 "He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants.
18 "And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the LORD will not hear you in that day."
19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "No, but we will have a king over us,
20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."
21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the LORD.
22 So the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed their voice, and make them a king." And Samuel said to the men of Israel, "Every man go to his city."
Gen 28:22 TITHES (10%)
22 "And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Num 18:21
21 "Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.
Exod 22:25 POOR (12%)
25 "If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.
Exod 23:10-11
10 "Six years you shall sow your land and gather in its produce,
11 "but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove.
Lev 19:9-10
9 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.
10 'And you shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
xx The old testament tithes were what they owed to God in the church. But what they fell to speak of is what else God says they owe. They owe 10% of their income for taxes, and they also owe 12% of their income strait to the poor around them. They owed 10% for taxes. According to the old testament law of what you owed to God was 32% of your income, 10% to the church and 10% to the government, and 12% to the poor. Thank God we are not under the old testament. Now who is taking more than they have a right to?
