ECT Paul __ What was his starting point when he began to teach Jesus Christ??

[Cross Reference]

(1) Paul starts with the eternal Father—not the Fall of man.

(2) He indicates that God’s purposing was “before the foundation of the world.”

(3) He emphasizes that God’s purpose is to be realized through, and is to center in the Son.

Want to argue any of those 3 things? Want to argue God's purposes for His creation? Argue with yourselves but, begin at the beginning.

 

[oatmeal]

(1) Paul starts with the eternal Father—not the Fall of man.

(2) He indicates that God’s purposing was “before the foundation of the world.”

(3) He emphasizes that God’s purpose is to be realized through, and is to center in the Son.

Want to argue any of those 3 things? Want to argue God's purposes for His creation? Argue with yourselves but, begin at the beginning.

His past was certainly rooted in his knowledge of the law, but once he received the gift of salvation, and realized that Jesus is the Christ, the messiah that he, (and the believers in Israel, as well as some of the believing Gentiles like the Magi), was waiting for, he had every reason to change his tune, to have a change of heart.

His message was definitely a positive one, he was not our condemning people, but giving them reason to believe what God's word teaches and what Jesus Christ did to accomplish God's purposes for our benefit

 

[Interplanner]

Can you give an example of starting with the fall or sin of man? Maybe you need to give an example of 'starting.'

 

[Interplanner]

In the sample sermon of Acts 13, it was Israel's history. In the presentation in the Aeropagus, it was creation. What do you mean by starting?

 

[patrick jane]

(1) Paul starts with the eternal Father—not the Fall of man.

(2) He indicates that God’s purposing was “before the foundation of the world.”

(3) He emphasizes that God’s purpose is to be realized through, and is to center in the Son.

Want to argue any of those 3 things? Want to argue God's purposes for His creation? Argue with yourselves but, begin at the beginning.

Genesis 1:1-3 KJV -

 

[Cross Reference]

Can you give an example of starting with the fall or sin of man? Maybe you need to give an example of 'starting.'

Start with man? Begin there and man will never get beyond celebrating what Jesus did for him to the point of complacency and willful ignorance.

 

[Cross Reference]

In the sample sermon of Acts 13, it was Israel's history. In the presentation in the Aeropagus, it was creation. What do you mean by starting?

Starting as in having the right beginning point for understanding anything, regardless of what it might be that one is sincerely interested in knowing about.

 

[Cross Reference]

"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;" Ephesians 1:3-8 (KJV)

“According as he (the Father) has chosen us in Him (Jesus, the Son) before the foundation of the world” (vs4) Blessed us with all spiritual blessings. . . in Christ” (vs3). “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself. . . (vs5) . . . He hath made us accepted in the beloved” (vs6).

Paul later points out that because man did sin and needs redemption, this provision was also available in Jesus Christ, the Son: “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace” (v.7).

Unto this as the Goal: “That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him” (Eph 1:10). “According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Eph 3:11).

Focus attention on these verses which outline the eternal purpose, to see Jesus out of any time-perspective, for understanding the issues from the God’s eternal perspective.

OMT Eph 3:10 is the only other place I believe Paul uses the word dispensation as it should be used, i.e., pertaining to time allowed for the advancement of the purposes of God dispensing information to our understanding to explain Himself.

If you understand the above I believe this verse needs to have the question asked: "Who is this Paul is referring to"?

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12 (KJV only) To understand why I emphasize the need to read it from that Trans. i.e., that you make the judgment absent commentary.

 

[Interplanner]

Starting as in having the right beginning point for understanding anything, regardless of what it might be that one is sincerely interested in knowing about.

I would not 'start' at the same point if doing evangelism as I would if fixing my volvo.

 

[Cross Reference]

I would not 'start' at the same point if doing evangelism as I would if fixing my volvo.

Why, since your evangelistic note would, doubtless, be about being saved from hell and damnation?

 

[Interplanner]

"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;" Ephesians 1:3-8 (KJV)

“According as he (the Father) has chosen us in Him (Jesus, the Son) before the foundation of the world” (vs4) Blessed us with all spiritual blessings. . . in Christ” (vs3). “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself. . . (vs5) . . . He hath made us accepted in the beloved” (vs6).

Paul later points out that because man did sin and needs redemption, this provision was also available in Jesus Christ, the Son: “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace” (v.7).

Unto this as the Goal: “That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him” (Eph 1:10). “According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Eph 3:11).

Focus attention on these verses which outline the eternal purpose, to see Jesus out of any time-perspective, for understanding the issues from the God’s eternal perspective.

OMT Eph 3:10 is the only other place I believe Paul uses the word dispensation as it should be used, i.e., pertaining to time allowed for the advancement of the purposes of God dispensing information to our understanding to explain Himself.

If you understand the above I believe this verse needs to have the question asked: "Who is this Paul is referring to"?

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:12 (KJV only) To understand why I emphasize the need to read it from that Trans. i.e., that you make the judgment absent commentary.

Ephesians is not evangelistic in the same sense as Acts 13 (to Jews in a synagogue) or Acts 17 (to pagans in a philosophical forum). The destination of the letter was left blank in the original (see text notes and the NIV's note on v1:1), so this is virtually a 'publication' by Paul about the Christian faith, but for believers. It was meant to read more widely than anything else in the NT collection. Correct me if wrong, but I don't think he sounds like he is talking to outsiders and 'starting from scratch' with their questions.

Collossians is a condensation of this letter with a particular neo-Judaistic opponent in mind.

But you're right in saying that the thing God accomplished in Christ is the center. I get more of a sense of parental-risk taking in Eph 1 than anywhere else: it's a sort of 'let's start a family even if they fight with us or each other; we'll make a way to reconcile them to us no matter what' or at least that is the feel I get from it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Ephesians is not evangelistic in the same sense as Acts 13 (to Jews in a synagogue) or Acts 17 (to pagans in a philosophical forum). The destination of the letter was left blank in the original (see text notes and the NIV's note on v1:1), so this is virtually a 'publication' by Paul about the Christian faith, but for believers. It was meant to read more widely than anything else in the NT collection. Correct me if wrong, but I don't think he sounds like he is talking to outsiders and 'starting from scratch' with their questions.

Collossians is a condensation of this letter with a particular neo-Judaistic opponent in mind.

But you're right in saying that the thing God accomplished in Christ is the center. I get more of a sense of parental-risk taking in Eph 1 than anywhere else: it's a sort of 'let's start a family even if they fight with us or each other; we'll make a way to reconcile them to us no matter what' or at least that is the feel I get from it.

I Believe that if you were born again all of what I wrote would open up the way that would rectify the struggles you are having.

 

[Interplanner]

I Believe that if you were born again all of what I wrote would open up the way that would rectify the struggles you are having.

LOL!
Name one.

I'm a very happy person, who wakes up in the middle of the night with fantastic historic hymns teeming through my brain!

To be born again means to born of the Gospel. I am in Christ, and you need to spend quite a bit more time finding out what a person means or not before you decide whether they are Christians.

Start over!

Spend 10x the time reading the NT as reading TOL.

 

[Cross Reference]

LOL!
Name one.

I'm a very happy person, who wakes up in the middle of the night with fantastic historic hymns teeming through my brain!

To be born again means to born of the Gospel. I am in Christ, and you need to spend quite a bit more time finding out what a person means or not before you decide whether they are Christians.

Start over!

Spend 10x the time reading the NT as reading TOL.

But, I didn't say you weren't a Christian or one who couldn't make a profession of faith. What I did infer was you weren't born again that the faith of Christ Jesus could impart to you the understanding Paul "owned".. Now, put your academic hat back on your head and study out the difference between your mindsets. His was continually being converted.

Where there is no soundness in their viewpoint men relate everything to themselves and measure truth with a human yardstick, unto an inevitable fragmentation and distortion of truth. Cults evidence this.

 

[Cross Reference]

“Christ Jesus brought a philosophy from God to us, as well as righteousness, and purity and redemption” (1 Cor. 1:30, Ferrar Fenton).

By this divine philosophy, man’s greatest questions and problems are answered, and through obedience to it, he is utterly rectified to God. That is what being born again from above is purposed to achieve. Paul understood this.

 

[Interplanner]

Justification and personal transformation are different enough things. Don't confuse them. The latter will never be the perfect quality that justification from the debt of sin is.

 

[Cross Reference]

Justification and personal transformation are different enough things. Don't confuse them. The latter will never be the perfect quality that justification from the debt of sin is.

So it is you continue to relate the things of God to yourself instead of Him. How insecure can that be if you say you understand?