Paul’s false doctrine of everyone is a sinner

[jshugart]

My father asked me to either join in on one of his threads or start my own. I’m doing this more as a check on my own beliefs than me trying to tell anyone they are wrong. I’m hoping my Dad and I can have some insightful discussion, and I may even learn something new.

My father is JerryShugart, If you have been on the Forums for any length of time, I’m sure you are aware of his beliefs. I would not call myself Christian, closest category I would place myself into is; Hebrew. My canon differs greatly from yours, as I reject most of the NT as inspired, and I reject all of Paul’s writings. Just giving you a heads up on where I’m coming from.

However, choosing Paul’s false teachings as my topic is bound to step on people’s toes, as Paul is the founder of modern Christianity. So please understand, I am not attacking you personally, I’m just pointing out things as I see them. I will try and be polite, but I have been called “snarky” in the past. I’m mainly posting here because my father asked me too (Ex 20:12).

Acts 17:10-11 has the basis from which I examine the entire NT. I compare what Paul has to say to the OT Scriptures, as he claims his teachings can all be found there. So I exhort you to use only the OT texts to prove to me Paul’s doctrine. I say it can’t be done, because he didn’t base his doctrine on OT Scripture.

I’m choosing this topic, because I honestly am looking for truth, no matter the cost. So if I’m wrong on this, I want to be shown where I’m wrong, so I can correct my views.

Whenever someone misquotes the bible, or takes a scripture out of context or outright says the Word says one thing, when it actually says something 180 degrees difference…. This person should be shown the error of their way and let everyone see it for what it was. So why is it any different when Paul does it?

The primary false doctrine of Paul is that we are all sinners, every last one of us, there is no one that is not considered a sinner. (Rom 3:23)

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. “ HCSB Rom 3:23

Of course that goes against what Jesus said in Matt 7:21-23, but that never bothers Paul, he contradicts Jesus all the time, but that is a discussion for another time.

Paul here in Romans chapter 3, uses OT quotes to backup his new doctrine. Six different times Paul calls the reader to a different OT text to back up his doctrine that there are only wicked people in the world, no one that isn’t wicked. I’ll list them here:

1.Rom 3:10-12 (quote from Psalm 14:1-3)
2.Rom 3:13a (quote from Psalm 5:9)
3.Rom 3:13b (quote from Psalm 140:3)
4.Rom 3:14 (quote from Psalm 10:7)
5.Rom 3:15-17 (quote from Isaiah 59:7-8)
6.Rom 3:18 (quote from Psalm 36:1)

No one debates these quotes. The problem though, is with the fact that those scriptures he is quoting from, don’t show that there are only wicked people in the earth. In each case, the scripture actually shows just the opposite, that there are in fact two classes of people, the wicked and the righteous. But thankfully the Romans didn’t know the OT, so it was OK for Paul to deceive them, because the ends justify the means in Paul’s philosophy (1 Cor 9:19-25).

Here is the list of the Scriptures that were overlooked and not quoted by Paul, because they would have disproved the point he was trying to deceive the Romans about. Did Paul not know the rest of the Scriptures, was this an honest mistake? Paul claimed to be a Rabbi's Rabbi, so he did know the Scripture and was purposefully deceiving the reader, or he lied and was not real Rabbi, and therefor maybe he didn't know he was misquoting all those Scriptures and teaching against what the Word of God has to say. Is there a third option?

1.Psalm 14:4-7
2.Psalm 5: 9-10 vs 11-12
3.Psalm 140:4, 8, 12, 13
4.Psalm 10:8
5.Isaiah 59:15, 20 and Isaiah 57:1-2, 21
6.Psalm 36:10

Read them in context, and not just the one reference from Paul.

Since I have shown these source texts of Paul’s to be exactly the opposite, they actually disprove Paul’s doctrine. So, does anyone else have any OT scriptures that show what Paul was trying to prove, that there are only one class of people, sinners, no one is in a group called Righteous.

I could not find anything on my own, but maybe a crowd source can help me find them. My assumption is that they don't exist, because if they did, Paul would have referenced them instead of trying to lie to us with misrepresented Scripture quotes.

Remember, please keep it to OT text.

 

[Tambora]

My father is JerryShugart,

Lucky to have such a father.

Remember, please keep it to OT text.

Christians don't do that.

 

[Tambora]

Oh, and welcome to TOL.
:wave:

 

[steko]

Welcome to TOL, jshugart!

 

[jamie]

Remember, please keep it to OT text.

Being a rabbi, Paul might have picked up on Jeremiah's assertion: "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

To "know it" means to acknowledge it.

I love Bandera. It would be my second choice as a place to live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6JRrKSgYEQ

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

My canon differs greatly from yours, as I reject most of the NT as inspired, and I reject all of Paul’s writings. Just giving you a heads up on where I’m coming from.

Welcome.

Take the tests...

Trinity:
https://challies.typeform.com/to/I1ntTT

Scripture:
http://www.challies.com/resources/a-quiz-on-the-doctrine-of-scripture

Doctrine of Christ:
https://challies.typeform.com/to/zfV3mn

How did you do?

AMR

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So, does anyone else have any OT scriptures that show what Paul was trying to prove, that there are only one class of people, sinners, no one is in a group called Righteous.

Hi son, welcome to TOL!

Here is what is said in the OT about people's own righteousness:

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isa.64:6).​

The words "we are all" eliminates the possibilty that only some men are in view so I would have to say that all men are sinners and that is why we read that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."

On the other hand, the OT does in fact speak of the same imputed righteousness of which Paul speaks. This passage is about Abraham:

"Then He brought him outside and said, 'Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.' And He said to him, 'So shall your descendants be.' And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:5-6).​

Paul used these very words in his effort to show that even those in the OT were saved by grace apart from works:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:1-5).​

From what is said about the Abraham receiving God's imputed righteousness at Genesis 15:6 I can only conclude that he was saved by grace apart from works.

Do you agree?

Anyway, I am thrilled that you took the time and the effort to discuss these things on this forum!

 

[Robert Pate]

Good luck with your Son, Jerry.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

He doesn't have the truth.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why does Jesus say;

John 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Is it because by being born again that sin is forgiven?

 

[glorydaz]

The primary false doctrine of Paul is that we are all sinners, every last one of us, there is no one that is not considered a sinner. (Rom 3:23)

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. “ HCSB Rom 3:23

Of course that goes against what Jesus said in Matt 7:21-23, but that never bothers Paul, he contradicts Jesus all the time, but that is a discussion for another time.

I believe your answer can be found in Matt. 5:21-48 not Matt. 7

What does Jesus tell us there? He tells us if we look at a woman with lust in our eyes, we have COMMITTED adultery. The sin is not just in what we do, but in our very thoughts. When he says, at the end of that chapter, "Be ye perfect..." He means just that. So, Paul does not disagree with Jesus at all. People have tried to water down Jesus' words (well, he didn't mean perfect, He meant "complete".) Not true. We are to be perfect, and the only way for that to happen is to have righteousness imputed to us through belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. And that is what the risen Lord sent Paul to clarify.

What man, in all honesty, can claim to be perfect and sinless? Only a man in denial.

Welcome aboard. I hope you stay.

 

[glorydaz]

BTW...what do you think of Isaiah (of all people) saying this... Isaiah 6:5

 

[jshugart]

Being a rabbi, Paul might have picked up on Jeremiah's assertion: "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

Thank you for the reference.

How did you do?

AMR

If you have a direct question, I will attempt to give you an answer. But I'd rather not have to take a battery of tests to participate in discussions. And I'd like to keep things on topic, otherwise this is going to disolve into choas very quickly.

Good luck with your Son, Jerry.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

He doesn't have the truth.

I'm not sure that is what I said or believe, but if that is what you came away with from my first post, I apoligize for failing to be clearer. I will attempt to clarify further down.

Do you agree?

No, I do not agree. Let me explain...

Here is what is said in the OT about people's own righteousness: (Isa.64:6)

Isa 64:5-6 (HCSB)
5 You welcome the one who joyfully does what is right; they remember You in Your ways. But we have sinned, and You were angry. How can we be saved if we remain in our sins? 6 All of us have become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment; all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.

If you had included the previous verse in your quote, you would see you are doing the same thing that Paul does in Rom 3:10-18. Is 64 is talking about two different classes of people, sinners and righteous. Not just one group call the wicked.

On the other hand, the OT does in fact speak of the same imputed righteousness of which Paul speaks. This passage is about Abraham: {(Gen.15:5-6)}

That isn't the whole story though.

Gen 26:4-5 (HCSB)
4 I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of the sky, I will give your offspring all these lands, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring, 5 because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My mandate, My commands, My statutes, and My instructions.”

I hold to the view that Abraham had God's Torah, that God's instructions for man has never changed (Mal 3:6). He walked the righteous path, it was not just by faith alone.

But in any case, this says it was because of works, not faith.

Paul used these very words in his effort to show that even those in the OT were saved by grace apart from works: (Ro.4:1-5)

Why do you quote Paul to me as a source of truth when I tell you I dismiss Paul as authoritative. Remember, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you are trying to change my mind. And to do that, you can't use texts that have no meaning to me.

Since you brought up Rom 4, I will ask you a question about Paul's confusion in chapter four. At Romans 4:13

Rom 4:13 (HCSB)
13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

You want me to believe this doctrine, when he can't get his basic facts straight. Please show me where in the OT that "he would inherit the world".

Again, Paul is 180 from the real Apostles, but that doesn't bother people that Paul is 180 different than Jesus either.

James 2:20-24 (HCSB)
20 Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless? 21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected. 23 So the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

This goes 180 against what you were saying Paul proclaimed. James quotes the same exact Scripture as Paul, but comes away with totally different doctrine. Both can't be correct.


Gen 22:15-18 (HCSB)
15 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn,” this is the LORD’s declaration: “Because you have done this thing and have not withheld your only son, 17 I will indeed bless you and make your offspring as numerous as the stars of the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your offspring will possess the gates of their enemies. 18 And all the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring because you have obeyed My command.”

"obeyed" = works, not faith without works.



So, Dad. I answered your questions. Now I'd like you to address my point about the misquoting of Scripture by Paul in Romans chapter 3.


I'll lay them out, just six different quotes. You tell me if the text being quoted from is indicitive of a doctrine of only one class of people, "the wicked". Or instead, is the text being quoted from actually establishing two classes of people that coexist, "the wicked" and "the righteous".


FIRST (Psalm 14)

Ps 14:1-7 (HCSB)
1 The fool says in his heart, “God does not exist.” They are corrupt; they do vile deeds. There is no one who does good. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven on the human race to see if there is one who is wise, one who seeks God. 3 All have turned away; all alike have become corrupt. There is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Will evildoers never understand? They consume My people as they consume bread; they do not call on the LORD. 5 Then they will be filled with terror, for God is with those who are righteous. 6 You sinners frustrate the plans of the afflicted, but the LORD is his refuge. 7 Oh, that Israel’s deliverance would come from Zion! When the LORD restores the fortunes of His people, Jacob will rejoice; Israel will be glad.

My call: TWO classes


SECOND (Psalm 5)

Ps 5:9-12 (HCSB)
9 For there is nothing reliable in what they say; destruction is within them; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongues. 10 Punish them, God; let them fall by their own schemes. Drive them out because of their many crimes, for they rebel against You. 11 But let all who take refuge in You rejoice; let them shout for joy forever. May You shelter them, and may those who love Your name boast about You. 12 For You, LORD, bless the righteous one; You surround him with favor like a shield.

My call: TWO classes


THIRD (Psalm 140)

Ps 140:4, 8, 12-13 (HCSB)
4 Protect me, LORD, from the clutches of the wicked. Keep me safe from violent men who plan to make me stumble.
8 LORD, do not grant the desires of the wicked; do not let them achieve their goals. Otherwise, they will become proud. ?Selah
12 I know that the LORD upholds the just cause of the poor, justice for the needy.
13 Surely the righteous will praise Your name; the upright will live in Your presence.

My call: TWO classes


FOURTH (Psalm 10)

Ps 10:7-8 (HCSB)
7 Cursing, deceit, and violence fill his mouth; trouble and malice are under his tongue. 8 He waits in ambush near the villages; he kills the innocent in secret places. His eyes are on the lookout for the helpless;

My call: TWO classes


FIFTH (Isaiah 57 & 59)

Isa 59:15, 20 (HCSB)
15 Truth is missing, and whoever turns from evil is plundered. The LORD saw that there was no justice, and He was offended.
20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who turn from transgression.” This is the LORD’s declaration.

Isa 57:1-2, 21 (HCSB)
1 The righteous one perishes, and no one takes it to heart; faithful men are swept away, with no one realizing that the righteous one is swept away from the presence of evil. 2 He will enter into peace — they will rest on their beds — everyone who lives uprightly.
21 There is no peace for the wicked,” says my God.

My call: TWO classes


SIXTH (Psalm 36)

Ps 36:1, 10 (HCSB)
1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked person: There is no dread of God before his eyes,
10 Spread Your faithful love over those who know You, and Your righteousness over the upright in heart.

My call: TWO classes


Why should I read anything coming from Paul is in any way authoritative? I much prefer someone that teaches with honesty and honor, who doesn't think that lies are ok if used in the process of teaching his special gospel.



And the question of righteousness was explained in simple terms for all to understand through the prophet Ezekiel in chapter 18. This chapter explains to me, exactly what is needed from each person.

Ezek 18:4 (HCSB)
4 Look, every life belongs to Me. The life of the father is like the life of the son — both belong to Me. The person who sins is the one who will die.

Ezek 18:9 (HCSB)
9 He follows My statutes and keeps My ordinances, acting faithfully. Such a person is righteous; he will certainly live.” This is the declaration of the Lord GOD.

Ezek 18:13 (HCSB)
13 and lends at interest or for profit, will he live? He will not live! Since he has committed all these detestable acts, he will certainly die. His blood will be on him.

Ezek 18:17 (HCSB)
17 He keeps his hand from harming the poor, not taking interest or profit on a loan. He practices My ordinances and follows My statutes. Such a person will not die for his father’s iniquity. He will certainly live.

Ezek 18:20-22 (HCSB)
20 The person who sins is the one who will die. A son won’t suffer punishment for the father’s iniquity, and a father won’t suffer punishment for the son’s iniquity. The righteousness of the righteous person will be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked person will be on him. 21 “Now if the wicked person turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will certainly live; he will not die. 22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. He will live because of the righteousness he has practiced.

Ezek 18:26-27 (HCSB)
26 When a righteous person turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, he will die for this. He will die because of the iniquity he has practiced. 27 But if a wicked person turns from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will preserve his life.

Ezek 18:30-31 (HCSB)
30 “Therefore, house of Israel, I will judge each one of you according to his ways.” This is the declaration of the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn from all your transgressions, so they will not be a stumbling block that causes your punishment. 31 Throw off all the transgressions you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. Why should you die, house of Israel?


Pretty simple stuff.

 

[jshugart]

What man, in all honesty, can claim to be perfect and sinless? Only a man in denial.

Then Paul would be a man in denial by your own statement.

Phil 3:4-6 (HCSB)
4 although I once also had confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; regarding the law, a Pharisee; 6 regarding zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.

Paul directly states he was sinless under the law of Moses. It isn't what I said, I'm just quoting Paul.

 

[jamie]

Then Paul would be a man in denial by your own statement.

Phil 3:4-6 (HCSB)
4 although I once also had confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; regarding the law, a Pharisee; 6 regarding zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.

Paul directly states he was sinless under the law of Moses. It isn't what I said, I'm just quoting Paul.

No you're not. That's not what he said.

 

[glorydaz]

Then Paul would be a man in denial by your own statement.

Phil 3:4-6 (HCSB)
4 although I once also had confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; regarding the law, a Pharisee; 6 regarding zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.

Paul directly states he was sinless under the law of Moses. It isn't what I said, I'm just quoting Paul.

Well, no......

Paul was stating what he believed while he was a Pharisee. When his "confidence" was "in the flesh".

Then Jesus came, Himself, and clarified what the Law of Moses intended, and it was not what the scribes and pharisees taught. He made that clear in Matt. 5. Paul was referring to being blameless under the law as the Jews understood it. All the pharisees thought they were blameless under the law, and trusting in the sacrifices, but they didn't understand that your every thought is judged as having actually committed a sin. They didn't take to heart the concept of "coveting".

 

[jshugart]

Well, no......

Paul was stating what he believed while he was a Pharisee. When his "confidence" was "in the flesh".

Then Jesus came, Himself, and clarified what the Law of Moses intended, and it was not what the scribes and pharisees taught. He made that clear in Matt. 5. Paul was referring to being blameless under the law as the Jews understood it. All the pharisees thought they were blameless under the law, and trusting in the sacrifices, but they didn't understand that your every thought is judged as having actually committed a sin. They didn't take to heart the concept of "coveting".

And how about Acts 25:7-8

Acts 25:7-8 (HCSB)
7 When he arrived, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood around him and brought many serious charges that they were not able to prove, 8 while Paul made the defense that, “Neither against the Jewish law, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I sinned at all.”

If the first reference wasn't clear enough for you, this one does it for me.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

If you have a direct question, I will attempt to give you an answer.

Do you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity as taught in Scripture: within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

In other words,
1. the Father is God,
2. the Son is God,
3. the Holy Spirit is God,
4. the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit,
5. the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit,
6. the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son, and
7. they are not three gods, but one God.

AMR

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Isa 64:5-6 (HCSB)
5 You welcome the one who joyfully does what is right; they remember You in Your ways. But we have sinned, and You were angry. How can we be saved if we remain in our sins? 6 All of us have become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment; all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.

If you had included the previous verse in your quote, you would see you are doing the same thing that Paul does in Rom 3:10-18. Is 64 is talking about two different classes of people, sinners and righteous. Not just one group call the wicked.

Jack, let us look at this translation:

"Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isa.64:5-6).​

You just assume that the phrase "worketh righteousness" means being sinless. However, here we can see that David is described as walking before the LORD "in righteousness" but we both know that he was not sinless.

"And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day" (1 Ki.3:6).​

Besides that at Isaiah 64:5 the one described as "working righteousness" cannot be excluded from the category mentioned in the very next verse: "we are all as an unclean thing."

That isn't the whole story though.

Gen 26:4-5 (HCSB)
4 I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of the sky, I will give your offspring all these lands, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring, 5 because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My mandate, My commands, My statutes, and My instructions.”

I hold to the view that Abraham had God's Torah, that God's instructions for man has never changed (Mal 3:6). He walked the righteous path, it was not just by faith alone.

But in any case, this says it was because of works, not faith.

At Genesis 26:4-5 the reference is not in regard to the LORD imputing righteousness to Abraham because he believed God. Instead,the reference is to making Israel a great nation through whom all of the world will be blessed. Nothing which is said in those verses nullify what is said here:

"Then He brought him outside and said, 'Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.' And He said to him, 'So shall your descendants be.' And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:5-6).​

Again, Paul is 180 from the real Apostles, but that doesn't bother people that Paul is 180 different than Jesus either.

James 2:20-24 (HCSB)
20 Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless? 21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected. 23 So the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

This goes 180 against what you were saying Paul proclaimed. James quotes the same exact Scripture as Paul, but comes away with totally different doctrine. Both can't be correct.

You misunderstand what is said in the verses which you quoted. First, let us look at what James said in the first chapter in the same epistle:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​

The giving of birth is apart from works of any kind. Let us look at what what you call one of the real Apostles said about being born again:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Let us look at what is said in the gospel of another one of the real Apostles, John:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Gen 22:15-18 (HCSB)
15 Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn,” this is the LORD’s declaration: “Because you have done this thing and have not withheld your only son, 17 I will indeed bless you and make your offspring as numerous as the stars of the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your offspring will possess the gates of their enemies. 18 And all the nations of the earth will be blessed by your offspring because you have obeyed My command.”

"obeyed" = works, not faith without works.

Again, that does not nullify what is said at Genesis 15:6.

So, Dad. I answered your questions. Now I'd like you to address my point about the misquoting of Scripture by Paul in Romans chapter 3.

I have answered many of your points. Now I would like you to respond to what I said. We can discuss those passages which you quoted later. How about that?

Good night, son.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What man, in all honesty, can claim to be perfect and sinless? Only a man in denial.

Right, and who would dare claim that they keep the law as the Lord Jesus defined it here?:

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Mt.22:36-40).​

 

[intojoy]

Jr,
Your problem is not with universal sin your problem is the fact of universal death. Everything on this planet dies because of one man's sin.