*
That Jesus is called the word of God is not in doubt regardless of Jerome but he did not mis~translate that He was with God and He was God and all things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.
ECT Our triune God
- Thread starter Lon
- Start date
That Jesus is called the word of God is not in doubt regardless of Jerome but he did not mis~translate that He was with God and He was God and all things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.
luz.
You have seen the Trinitarian admission of guilt many times before, haven’t you?:
The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum. http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255. Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.
So what are you mumbling about?
The part of book of Revelation you are referring to speaks about this context:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Don't you get it yet, luz.
You were pointed to it many times before, weren't you luz?
Do yourself a favour, Totton.
Substitute Jesus for logos in Jn 1:1-3. See what you come up with.
Then substitute it with word knowing Isa 55:11 and Ac 10:36 among other verses. See what you come up with.
Now take a look at some of hundreds of fool proof texts like these:
Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.
Now you see how simple God's word is.
You need to take a look at Ps 33:6+9, Heb 11:3 among others and then check the multiple meaning words which were rendered as if Jesus made the universe.
"Speaking in tongues is an evidence of the Spirit's presence:"-Gill White
Translation: The Lord Jesus Christ did not have "the Spirit." This explains why He did not speak in tongues.
Thanks for unpacking that for us.
But He did promise them to believers
/
I have told you that you have no understanding of scripture...none of these discount the scriptures that declare Jesus to be God in he flesh.
And there are old and new testament scriptures that declare Him to be God....you are studying only with your natural mind, that is not good enough to understand scripture.
"using your logic...you blur the distinction between true and false...like the JW... what the original author understood as intended by the Spirit who inspired these things.... in the JW boat... is biblically defensible,.." -"god'blewit
Spam cliche he uses on every 3rd post. Do members of the boc, which excludes you, a favor-stay out of the debate. You are not qualified. We can defend our(emphasis mine)doctrine, w/o your man worhipping, secular humanist spam, which you obtained from your stack of commentaries, clown.
And get saved.
Krsto
Well-known member
Ah the old "my mind is spiritual, yours is natural" ad hominem.
My mind is as natural as yours but neither you or I will understand the scripture with our natural minds...you are in active opposition to the Holy Spirit whose mission in this age is to exalt the Lord Jesus...how then will He teach you?
Even if that presumption/asssertion is true, that is not Gill White's "argument." Pay attention.
Krsto
Well-known member
My mission and the Holy Spirit's are the same: to accurately teach what Jesus and the apostles taught about Jesus. If that means debunking your post-apostolic trinitarianism then why aren't you listening?
*
We are in different camps dear boy....something I am entirely at peace with. The Holy Ghost is able to sort you out.
“And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!” Mt. 8:24-27
“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?” Mark 4:37-41
"“Now it came to pass on a certain day, that he went into a ship with his disciples: and he said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth. But as they sailed he fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him. “ Luke 8:22-25
Compare with Exodus 14:21–Moses as a “type” of the Lord Jesus Christ:
“And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.” Exodus 14:21
"O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever…..He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.” Psalms 107:1, 29).
“He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.” Psalms 135:7
“But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.”Matthew 14:24-32
“And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship; and the wind ceased: and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered.” Mark 6:48:51
“And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.” John 6:18-19
Compare with:
“Then Job answered and said, I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?... Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.” Job 9:1, 2, 8
“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? “ Proverbs 30:4
I can "tell", and will answer: The Lord Jesus Christ is “his son’s name”, and the Lord Jesus Christ is God. And everyone, one day, will humbled themselves, and will acknowledge this fact, as it is written:
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. “ Philippians 2:5-11
“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?” Mark 4:37-41
"“Now it came to pass on a certain day, that he went into a ship with his disciples: and he said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth. But as they sailed he fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him. “ Luke 8:22-25
Compare with Exodus 14:21–Moses as a “type” of the Lord Jesus Christ:
“And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.” Exodus 14:21
"O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever…..He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.” Psalms 107:1, 29).
“He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain; he bringeth the wind out of his treasuries.” Psalms 135:7
“But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.”Matthew 14:24-32
“And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship; and the wind ceased: and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered.” Mark 6:48:51
“And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.” John 6:18-19
Compare with:
“Then Job answered and said, I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?... Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.” Job 9:1, 2, 8
“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? “ Proverbs 30:4
I can "tell", and will answer: The Lord Jesus Christ is “his son’s name”, and the Lord Jesus Christ is God. And everyone, one day, will humbled themselves, and will acknowledge this fact, as it is written:
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. “ Philippians 2:5-11
Glory to God
Again, I will not be addressing the question of "if" the Lord Jesus Christ is God- the clear teaching of scriptures is that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. He is, and He claimed this was so. He is(present tense) also a man. This article attempts to set out one of the primary reasons "why" this must be so. The "kinsman redeemer" concept explains the why. In Genesis, "The Seed Plot of the Holy Bible", we have the "beginning" of 7(representing completion, perfection) promises/requirements of this redeemer. The redeemer would:
1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15=seed of a woman(and virgin conception-only a male has a seed)
2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26=Shem
3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3=Hebrew
4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10=Judah
5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16=David
6. be of a certain member of that family-Is. 7:14=Mary
7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2-Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:
1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25-"...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,
"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5,6
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15
This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=GOD and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
This is Paul's argument-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowledge Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang", and the unsaved), all will acknowledge that He is God(whether willingly, or by force, I am uncertain), as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10,11
2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 1:18,19, Romans 3:24,25..............).
3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21-see also 1 John 3:5, 1 Peter 2:22, Hebrews 4:15, John 8:46, Exodus 12:5="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.
4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:
*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3
* Genesis 22:6 "...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.
And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14
Please review the numerous "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as distinct, separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnated person of the Lord Jesus Christ(as is the Joshua 5 passage-"captain of the LORD's host"), is also declared as diety. Example:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6
"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine). But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22
1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15=seed of a woman(and virgin conception-only a male has a seed)
2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26=Shem
3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3=Hebrew
4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10=Judah
5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16=David
6. be of a certain member of that family-Is. 7:14=Mary
7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2-Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:
1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25-"...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,
"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5,6
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15
This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=GOD and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9
This is Paul's argument-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowledge Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang", and the unsaved), all will acknowledge that He is God(whether willingly, or by force, I am uncertain), as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10,11
2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 1:18,19, Romans 3:24,25..............).
3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21-see also 1 John 3:5, 1 Peter 2:22, Hebrews 4:15, John 8:46, Exodus 12:5="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.
4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:
*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3
* Genesis 22:6 "...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.
And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14
Please review the numerous "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as distinct, separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnated person of the Lord Jesus Christ(as is the Joshua 5 passage-"captain of the LORD's host"), is also declared as diety. Example:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6
"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine). But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22
Krsto
Well-known member
Good explanation as to why Jesus had to be a man but it doesn't set forth Jesus' deity - that is more assumed than demonstrated.
"Good explanation as to why Jesus had to be a man but it doesn't set forth Jesus' deity - that is more assumed than demonstrated."-Krsto
Then, can I assume that you and your fellow droids will no longer utilize that stumper "argument,"...
"the Holy Bible says he was a man..."
as basis of your premise, your "supporting walls," that He is not God?
Correct? If no, then you are not being intellectually honest.
Nope-requirement of the kinsman redeemer. You missed it.
Krsto
Well-known member
I can't speak for my fellow droids but I don't think I've ever used that as an argument against him being God. I do use it, with supporting texts, to prove to trinitarians the he is a man for those who deny that he was. Even if someone did use it as an argument against him being God it wouldn't necessarily be intelectual dishonesty, maybe just poor reasoning abilities.