Origins of the Hebrew Alphabet - Pictographic Symbols

[beameup]

The writing was ancient Hebrew writing. Of course. not your made-up symbols, but similar to those actually found by archaeologists.

Around Jabal al Lawz are found the pictographic Hebrew writings.
It is strictly "off limits" by the Saudi government; however,
a few have been able to successfully sneak into the area.
One of particular interest is a Korean who was the personal
physician of the King. Another was Cornuke and Williams.

PS: keep in mind that Moses lived in and was familiar with Midian.

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law,
the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside
of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. - Exodus 3:1

If one considers that the language of Hebrew was inspired by G_d, then perhaps there lies a much deeper and multi-layered meaning behind the original written and spoken language.

 

[chair]

Around Jabal al Lawz are found the pictographic Hebrew writings.
It is strictly "off limits" by the Saudi government; however,
a few have been able to successfully sneak into the area.
One of particular interest is a Korean who was the personal
physician of the King. Another was Cornuke and Williams.

PS: keep in mind that Moses lived in and was familiar with Midian.


If one considers that the language of Hebrew was inspired by G_d, then perhaps there lies a much deeper and multi-layered meaning behind the original written and spoken language.

So the only evidence that your drawings are accurate is mysteriously unavailable. Got it.

Was the writing inspired by God or Egyptian Hieroglyphics? which is it?

 

[beameup]

So the only evidence that your drawings are accurate is mysteriously unavailable. Got it.

Do see a lack of genuine interest on your part?
I do believe that cameras and yes even video camcorders have existed for awhile now.
But I would not want to "inconvenience" anyone.
Best to just stick with the Sinai peninsula where the Catholics "discovered" Mt. Sinai. :rotfl:

 

[chair]

Do see a lack of genuine interest on your part?
I do believe that cameras and yes even video camcorders have existed for awhile now.
But I would not want to "inconvenience" anyone.
Best to just stick with the Sinai peninsula where the Catholics "discovered" Mt. Sinai. :rotfl:

Post a link to some real evidence.

 

[beameup]

Hebrew was the language that Adam spoke. It was also the language of Noah and Shem whose language was not changed post flood after Babel.

Is this something Charles Taze Russel told you, or was this Rutherford's idea?
BTW, didn't Rutherford build a mansion in San Diego for Elijah, but ended up living in it himself?

 

[beameup]

Post a link to some real evidence.

You mean like the dozen verses from that Tanakh that "pin-point" the true location of the Temple? :rotfl:

BTW, I have serious doubts of credibility from someone who claims to be a descendent of Levites from the time of Moses, when they don't really even believe in the Exodus from Egypt.

 

[chair]

You mean like the dozen verses from that Tanakh that "pin-point" the true location of the Temple? :rotfl:

The topic of discussion here is the Hebrew language, and your claims about the pictographic character of ancient Hebrew. You are changing the topic in order to avoid presenting evidence- evidence that you clearly don't have.

BTW, I have serious doubts of credibility from someone who claims to be a descendent of Levites from the time of Moses, when they don't really even believe in the Exodus from Egypt.

You can have serious doubts as much as you want. I am a Levite, and I know there was an Exodus from Egypt. Now get back to the subject. Where is your evidence?

 

[beameup]

I am a Levite, and I know there was an Exodus from Egypt. Now get back to the subject. Where is your evidence?

Someone who "claims" to be descendent of the Levitical priesthood, and yet has :mock: no interest in finding their "roots".... nah, I don't think I'll bite :nono:

 

[chair]

Someone who "claims" to be descendent of the Levitical priesthood, and yet has :mock: no interest in finding their "roots".... nah, I don't think I'll bite :nono:

I am very interested. I've read many books about Biblical archaeology, and personally know several archaeologists. I have been studying the Bible in Hebrew for decades. The last time I visited a dig was four days ago.

I am very interested in real information. I am not interested in unsupported nonsense that shows up on the internet.

So if you have real information, and real sources- let's see them. Don't avoid it by attacking me.

Put up or shut up.

Chair

 

[daqq]

Someone who "claims" to be descendent of the Levitical priesthood, and yet has :mock: no interest in finding their "roots".... nah, I don't think I'll bite :nono:

Sheesh, and you suppose that you understand his "roots" better than he does?
Only on the internet I tell you! Only on the internet! :rotfl:

 

[daqq]

So the only evidence that your drawings are accurate is mysteriously unavailable. Got it.

Was the writing inspired by God or Egyptian Hieroglyphics? which is it?

Hmmm . . . "Egyptian Hieroglyphics" . . . :think: :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

Here is the Pictorial Hebrew (above) and the Babylonian "square" Script:

Also, the "arm with hand" is more anciently an Egyptian hieroglyphic symbol for the syllabic sound "Ah", (technically not a primary letter). After searching over the past several days I have not been able to actually find any real evidence that the yodh was even written in the "Hyksos" Proto-Sinaitic script with an "arm and hand" as your image file shows. Although there is plenty of speculation there are also plenty more who disagree and some sites which entirely avoid discussing the yodh because apparently there is not enough evidence to show that it was indeed the symbol of the arm and hand. Thus you might not even have the spelling correct in your interpretation of the Name, (going by the image file you have provided), because the "arm and hand" may actually have been the symbol for the sound "Ah" taken straight from well known older Egyptian hieroglyphics. It is difficult to see how anyone can claim they know any of these things for sure because it is all speculative; some good, and some not so good.

Egyptian Hieroglyphic Alphabet


You might do better to start guessing along the lines of the reed symbol:

Egyptian Hieroglyphic Alphabet


It is possible that the two strokes at the top of the later Paleo Yodh may have originally stood for two reeds:

It is also possible that the bottom stroke of the Paleo Yodh may have developed over a relatively short time by way of the simple process of scribes copying scrolls, (writing from the right to the left this would make sense if the yodh was written starting with a bottom stroke of the stem, upwards, and finishing with the two strokes at the top of the letter).

https://planofgod.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/ktav-ivrit-​the-ancient-hebrew-alphabet/

Moreover, Jeff A. Benner, (from the video in the opening post), references Dr. Douglas Petrovich on his website, (here), who himself suggests that the symbol of the "man with his hands raised" equates to the word halal, (praise, joy, halal, hallu, and so on), and thus the supposed reasoning for the several different versions of the man with his hands raised. But not even he suggests that the original root word that is used for each letter should be rendered as a meaning for the letter.

The translation provided in the image file you have posted is therefore not even correct to begin with, "behold the nail behold the arm / hand", because, for one, it reads backwards in English; and for two, the "arm and hand" glyph is unproven as to whether it even belongs in the Name because the Name is found nowhere written in the Proto-Sinaitic script; and for three, the "arm and hand" glyph might not even be the "Y" sound but rather the "Ah" syllabic sound taken straight from previously well known Egyptian hieroglyphs; and fourthly, there is visual evidence to the contrary from the Egyptian hieroglyph for the "Y" sound, (two reeds), and "I" sound, (one reed), and from the Paleo Hebrew texts for the Yodh as shown above herein, (which is also yet nothing more than speculative), and furthermore, fifthly, the letter "He" is supposedly, (by Dr. D. Petrovich), not from a root meaning "to behold" but rather "to celebrate", or "to rejoice", or even or "to praise", (halal), but last of all, and most importantly: the reason Egyptian hieroglyphs took so long to understand and interpet is because for a very long time scholarship thought the symbols represented whole words instead of the first letter of each word which the pictorial glyphs represented. This is the very same thing your image file is doing, and it is fallacy: the letter "He" does not stand for "halal" or "praise" or "rejoice", or even "behold", and so on, but rather it only stands for the letter "He", (the sound made with that letter). Likewise the "arm and hand", (if it is even supposed to be there, as you presume), would not stand for "yad", or "hand", (as in "behold the hand"), but rather only stands for the letter Yodh, (the "Y" sound).

 

[beameup]

:blabla:

The "hand-forearm" symbol is perfectly suited, as God intended it to be. Only a spike through the "pulse" region, between the two bones, would support the weight of a body.

That would be through the Median Nerve and the most painful location for a Roman spike.

 

[chair]

We were discussing the origins of the Hebrew alphabet. An Alphabet that predates the Roman period by thousands of years. The technical side of crucifying somebody is not relevant.

 

[daqq]

The "hand-forearm" symbol is perfectly suited, as God intended it to be. Only a spike through the "pulse" region, between the two bones, would support the weight of a body.

That would be through the Median Nerve and the most painful location for a Roman spike.

The problem is we are speaking about the Name of the Father, who is non-corporeal SPIRIT, and does not have a physical body. The only reason what you have proposed seems "perfectly suited" to you is because your own pre-conceived STIPULATION must insist, without any evidence, that "Jesus is YHWH", (even in the face of manifold evidence against what your doctrine must insist upon in all cases). In other words your faulty doctrine is the king of your thinking process because your faulty dogma is allowed to dictate to you what is and what is not "perfectly suited" to what you already wish to believe. Loose the faulty doctrine and you might come to realize that what you have proposed is only "perfectly suited" if you believe the Father is a MAN who was crucified by His own creation, (which is outrageously absurd). And because you believe such nonsense you cannot fathom the possibility that your thinking and judgment might be clouded or distorted. Your response only confirms what you have already made clear in other posts and statements: you found some great looking computer generated artwork that supports your presupposed doctrinal paradigm, and you will not let go of it no matter how erroneous it might be proven to be, and no matter whether or not there is any real evidence for it to be found anywhere. You are simply on a mission to prove your own previously held dogma rather than a mission to seek out truth, however, your dogma is already anathema according to what is written in the scripture; so you will likely spin your own wheels for the rest of your life chasing down ways to prove nothing more than your own ill-conceived dogma to justify your thinking, (and thus yourself), because you have already turned away from the truth found in the scripture, (the Father is not a man and that is plain as day in the scripture).

 

[beameup]

We were discussing the origins of the Hebrew alphabet. An Alphabet that predates the Roman period by thousands of years. The technical side of crucifying somebody is not relevant.

So, you are saying that your "god" doesn't have foreknowledge?

“If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day, for he who is hanged is accursed of God" - Deuteronomy 21:22-23a
Actually, it was the Assyrians who perfected execution by impalement on wood (read Esther and history).

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree - Galatians 3:13

 

[chair]

So, you are saying that your "god" doesn't have foreknowledge?

“If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day, for he who is hanged is accursed of God" - Deuteronomy 21:22-23a
Actually, it was the Assyrians who perfected execution by impalement on wood (read Esther and history).

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree - Galatians 3:13

First of all- it is your god, not mine.
Secondly, god did not make up this alphabet. Humans did.
And finally, you have demonstrated once again that you are not logical and don't have facts to support your ideas.

I know you fervently believe this stuff, but it is just internet nonsense. Hard to accept that, but that is the fact. I can't spend more time pointing out how wrong all of this is. You'll have to use the brain that the god or gods of your choice gave you to figure this out.

 

[beameup]

First of all- it is your god, not mine.

Your God came down to you at Sinai. Your ancestors saw God. Your elders sat at his feet.
So now, your God is "aloof" and will not have direct contact with you.
But you hope that He will send an emissary, a "human" representative,
to make the world right, and reestablish Israel as the leading nation on earth?

 

[daqq]

And there is yet more Beameup. In the following inscription from Wadi el-Hol, (which is one of the inscriptions discussed by Dr. Petrovich and Jeff A. Benner), there is a symbol next to the word for "El" which is not translated because apparently no one is quite sure what it is, and it sure looks familiar, (lol), while the speculation by some is that it may be what is called a "divine determinative", (a "divinity marker" used in connection with divine names to signify some sort of divine nature or importance to the name). At the very bottom of the following image file is the ox-head and lamed for the word El, directly above is what sure looks like a paleo yod with the two stems at the top closed up, (perhaps like the modern yod might be supposed to represent), and at the same time it is placed higher than the word it is accentuating similarly to the way the yod is higher than the rest of the script even in modern times, (as if floating or heavenly, that is, not touching the "ground" or bottom level of the text).

http://msheflin.blogspot.com/2012/05/wadi-el-hol-translation.html

"The Egyptian divine-determinative nṯr is certainly placed above Ilu’s name, and may unclearly be drawn next to Aṯtar’s name.The Horizontal Inscription also evidences a probable simplification of the cuneiform divine determinative. Hamilton speculated it may be a “subscript y?”."
http://msheflin.blogspot.com/2012/05/wadi-el-hol-translation.html

By "subscript y" no doubt the equivalent to yod is meant in the speculation. Now look at the symbol for the yod or "Y" sound, (second row from the bottom), from several other Sinaitic inscriptions, (Sinai 355 and 365, and note that they recognize no "Y" or yod symbol for the inscriptions discussed by Jeff A. Benner and Dr. Petrovich).

http://msheflin.blogspot.com/2012/05/wadi-el-hol-translation.html

Now look below at the letter that is labeled as "ḡ" with the sound "ḡa", (not the "g" sound from gaml or gimel), near the bottom of the list. Again, it sure looks familiar, that is, much like a yod, and look across the same row to the middle column which shows the early south Semitic yod, (which is open ended just like the later paleo yod).

Here is a better image file of the same glyph in the far right bottom corner:

Proto-Sinaitic / Proto-Canaanite script
"This is one version of the Proto-Canaanite script using Phoenician/Hebrew alphabetical order. The actual arrangement of letters used is uncertain. Most letters have more than one shape."

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/protosinaitc.htm

Note the question mark below where the description is found for the other letters: whatever the symbol is supposed to represent is unknown, (and thus the sound, "ḡa", is conjecture). So it is also possible that the yod began as somewhat of a divine determinative or divinity marker. If this were true, and those who rendered the Septuagint understood this, one might expect to find evidence of this, such as examples where names that begin with a yod are for some strange reason rendered with an eta, (just as was done with Yeshayahu, "Ησαιας", even though his name begins with a yodh in Hebrew). It could very well be that Yeshayahu was considered an "elohim" of divine-judge-prophet status just as the scripture says of the judges, princes, and rulers of Israel, so that the yodh at the beginning of his name may have been treated as both a divine marker as well as a letter, (which perhaps in their thinking called for a change from the yod-equivalent Greek Iota to instead an Eta at the beginning of his name).

More importantly for this entire topic: consider what the same thinking might imply when it comes to The Name which we are discussing, ("He Who Exists", "He Who Is", "The Existing One", "The Being", etc., Y-HWH).

 

[chair]

Your God came down to you at Sinai. Your ancestors saw God. Your elders sat at his feet.
So now, your God is "aloof" and will not have direct contact with you.
But you hope that He will send an emissary, a "human" representative,
to make the world right, and reestablish Israel as the leading nation on earth?

If you want to discuss theology, by all means. In another thread. Then you can explain all those wonderful things that Jesus hasn't quite gotten around to yet, but will get to. Real soon now.