Origin of the Cross

CherubRam

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Origin of the Cross


A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mis-translations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says, "STAUROS denotes, primarily, an upright pole or stake...Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pole, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two-beamed cross. The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea (Babylon), and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name)...By the middle of the 3rd century A.D. the churches had either departed from, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the pretige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross piece lowered, was adopted..."

Dr. Bullinger, The Companion Bible, appx. 162 states, "crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god...It should be stated that Constantine was a Sun-god worshipper...The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon and upright stake, and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."

Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pp. 197-205, frankly calls the cross "this Pagan symbol...the Tau, the sign of the cross, the indisputable sign of Tammuz, the false Messiah...the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans (Babylonians) and Egyptians--the true original form of the letter T--the initial of the name of Tammus...the Babylonian cross was the recognized emblem of Tammuz."

In the Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, vol. 14, p. 273, we read, "In the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner." Jacob Grimm, in his Deutsche Mythologie, says that the Teutonic (Germanic) tribes had their idol Thor, symbolised by a hammer, while the Roman Christians had their crux (cross). It was thus somewhat easier for the Teutons to accept the Roman cross.

Greek dictionaries, lexicons and other study books also declare the primary meaning of stauros to be an upright pale, pole or stake. The secondary meaning of "cross" is admitted by them to be a "later" rendering. At least two of them do not even mention "cross," and only render the meaning as "pole or stake." In spite of this strong evidence and proof that the word stauos should have been translated "stake," and the verb stauroo to have been translated "impale," almost all the common versions of the Scriptures persist with the Latin Vulgate's crux (cross), a "later" rendering of the Greek stauros.

While it is true that stauros means stake or pole, it does not rule out that a cross piece was not attached to it. Look at modern times for example. A post often has something else attached to it like a wire fence, a mail box, or even a sign. The Greek word "stauros" itself does not explain whether anything is, or is not attached to it. Even early Christian writers spoke of the cross as having four limbs pointing above, below, and to both sides. Irenaeus mentioned the cross as "two in length, and two in breadth." Justin Martyr spoke of the cross as having "one beam placed upright" and "the other beam fitted on to it."

Historical evidence points to Constantine as the one who had the major share in uniting Sun-worship and the Messianic Belief. Constantine's famous vision of "the cross superimposed on the sun," in the year 312, is usually cited. Writers, ignorant of the fact that the cross was not to be found in the New Testament Scriptures, put much emphasis on this vision as the onset of the so-called "conversion" of Constantine. But, unless Constantine had been misguided by the Gnostic Manichean half-Christians, who indeed used the cross in their hybrid religion, this version of the cross superimposed on the sun could only be the same old solar cross, the symbol of the Sun-deity, the centre of cosmic religion, the astrological religion of Babylon.

The fact remains: that which Constantine saw, is nowhere to be found in Scripture. We read in the book of Johannes Geffcken, The Last Days of Greco-Roman Paganism. p. 319, "that even after 314 A.D. the coins of Constantine show an even-armed cross as a symbol for the Sun-god."

Many scholars have doubted the "conversion" of Constantine because of the wicked deeds that he did afterwards, and because of the fact that he only requested to be baptized on his death-bed many years later, in the year 337. So, if the vision of the cross impressed him, and was used as a rallying symbol, it could not have been in honour of our Saviour, because Constantine is attested of by his persistent use of images of the Sun-deity on his coins that were issued by him up to the year 323. Secondly, the fact of his motivation to issue his Sunday-keeping edict in the year 321, which was not done in honour of our Saviour, but was done because of the "venerable day of the Sun," as the edict read, is proof of his continued allegiance to Sol Invictus.

Where did the cross come from, then? J.C. Cooper, An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols, p.45, aptly summarizes it, "Cross--A universal symbol from the most remote times; it is the cosmic symbol par excellence." Other authorities also call it a sun-symbol, a Babylonian sun-symbol, an astrological Babylonian-Assyrian and heathen sun-symbol, also in the form of an encircled cross referred to as a "solar wheel," and many other varieties of crosses. Also, "the cross represents the Tree of Life, the age-old fertility symbol, combining the vertical male and horizontal female principles, especially in Egypt, either as an ordinary cross, or better known in the form of the crus ansata, the Egyptian ankh (sometimes called: the Tau cross), which had been carried over into our modern-day symbol of the female, well known in biology.

As stated above, the indisputable sign of Tammuz, the mystic Tau of the Babylonians and Egyptians, was brought into the Church chiefly because of Constantine, and has since been adored with all the homage due only to the Most Hight. The Protestants have for many years refrained from undue adoration of, or homage to, the cross, especially in England at the time of the Puritans in the 16th and 17th centuries. But lately this un-Scriptural symbol has been increasingly accepted in Protestantism. We have previously discussed "the weeping for Tammuz," and the similarity between the Easter resurrection and the return or rising of Tammuz. Tammuz was the young incarnate Sun, the Sun-divinity incarnate. This same Sun-deity, known amongst the Babylonians as Tammuz, was identified with the Greek Adonis and with the Phoenician Adoni, all of them Sun-deities, being slain in winter, then being "wept for," and their return being celebrated bu a festivity in spring, while some had it in summer--according to the myths of pagan idolarty.

The evidence for its pagan origin is so convincing that The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that "the sign of the cross, represented in its simplest form by a crossing of two lines at right angles, greatly antedates, in both East and the West, the introduction of Christianity. It goes back to a very remote period of human civilization." It then continues and refers to the Tau cross of the pagan Egyptians, "In later times the Egyptian Christians (Copts), attracted by its form, and perhaps by its symbolism, adopted it as the emblem of the cross."

Further proof of its pagan origin is the recorded evidence of the Vestal Virgins of pagan Rome having the cross hanging on a necklace, and the Egyptians doing it too, as early as the 15th century B.C.E. The Buddhists, and numerous other sects of India, also used the sign of the cross as a mark on their followers' heads. "The cross thus widely worshipped, or regarded as a 'sacred emblem,' was the unequivocal symbol of Bacchus, the Babylonian Messiah, for he was represented with a head-band convered with crosses."

After Constantine had the "vision of the cross," he ahd his army promoted another variety of the cross, the Chi-Rho or Labarum. This has subsequently been explained as representing the first letters of the name Christos, But again, this had a pagan origin. They were found as inscriptions on rock, dating from the year ca. 2500 B.C.E., being interpreted as "a combination of two Sun-symbols, known as the Ax- or Hammer-symbol of the Sun- or Sky-deity, and the + or X as the ancient symbol of the Sun, both of these signs having a sensual or fertility meaning as well. Another proof of its pagan origin is found on a coin of Ptolemeus III from the year 247-222 B.C.E.

A well-known encyclopedia describes the Labarum (Chi-Rho) as, "The labarum was also an emblem of the Chaldean (Babylonian) sky-god and in Christianity it was adopted..." Emperor Constantine adopted this Labarum as the imperial ensign and thereby succeeded in "uniting both divisions of his troops, pagans and Christians, in a common worship...

According to Suicer the word (labarum) came into use in the reign of Hadrian, and was probably adopted from one of the nations conquered by the Romans." It must be remembered that Hadrian reigned in the years 76-138 C.E., that he was a pagan emperor, worshipped the Sun-deity Serapis when he visited Alexandria, and was vehemently anti-Judaic, being responsible for the final near-destruction of Jerusalem in the year 130 C.E.

Another dictionary relates the following about the Chi-Rho, "However, the symbol was in the use long before Christianity, and X (Chi) probably stood for Great Fire or Sun, and P (Rho) probably stood for Pater or Patah (Father). The word labarum (la-baar-um) yields everlasting Father Sun."


 

Nick M

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To what where his hands and feet nailed? And does it matter if his arms are out or up?

Siege of Jerusalem said:
I see crosses there, not just of one kind but made in many different ways: some have their victims with head down to the ground; some impale their private parts; others stretch out their arms on the gibbet
 

CherubRam

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To what where his hands and feet nailed? And does it matter if his arms are out or up?

Gibbet:
1618214-closeup-of-wooden-gibbet-with-loop-on-white-background.jpg
 

CherubRam

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Quote: "I see (crosses / stauros) there, not just of one kind but made in many different ways: some have their victims with head down to the ground; some impale their private parts; others stretch out their arms on the gibbet."

Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word for stake.

f9d433e12610ea179dd38f165acb39d6.jpg
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 21:23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 1:23. NIV[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 but we preach Christ (crucified / staked out): a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Galatians 3:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 

beameup

New member
Impalement was a creation of the Assyrians. The YHWH-Witness seem to make a big deal out of this subject, interjecting falsehoods. Of course, Satan the Devil hates the cross as it proved to be his defeat. Maybe this fact has something to do with the YHWH-Witness going ballistic on the subject.

The forms of impalement evolved over time and varied greatly, but the primary reasoning was to prolong death over a period of days. The most likely form used by the Romans at some point, was to use a "tree-like" pole as a permanent support and then nailing the subject to an X of poles and then propping the X on the permanent pole. All of these wooden structures would be available at the crucifixion site.

CrucifixionX.jpg
 
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CherubRam

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Impalement was a creation of the Assyrians. The YHWH-Witness seem to make a big deal out of this subject, interjecting false facts. Of course, Satan the Devil hates the cross as it proved to be his defeat. Maybe this fact has something to do with the YHWH-Witness going ballistic on the subject.

The forms of impalement evolved over time and varied greatly, but the primary reasoning was to prolong death over a period of days. The most likely form used by the Romans at some point, was to use a "tree-like" pole as a permanent support and then nailing the subject to an X of poles and then propping the X on the permanent pole. All of these wooden structures would be available at the crucifixion site.

CrucifixionX.jpg

There was not a lot of trees in Israel. Wood was limited.
 

Nick M

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Siege of Jerusalem said:
I see crosses there, not just of one kind but made in many different ways: some have their victims with head down to the ground; some impale their private parts; others stretch out their arms on the gibbet

Psalm 22

16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.


1 Peter 2

23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
 

beameup

New member
There was not a lot of trees in Israel. Wood was limited.

This is not "rocket science". The permanent "poles" were erected at the crucifixion site. The victims were nailed to the X with 4 nails and then propped-up on the permanent "poles". After death, the nails were removed. Everything was "recycled".
 

Crucible

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Jesus was crucified on a cross. Either that,or it is a fairy tale because crosses are illustrated in the oldest Christian sites. The Romans used crosses- are you going to tell Rome they are wrong on their own history?

Sorry, but you are simply wrong [MENTION=16505]CherubRam[/MENTION]

Learn to acknowledge context and the flexibility of words- a cross can easily be called a 'stake'- it's nevertheless a stick in the ground.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Origin of the word crux.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Latin for:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] stake, scaffold, or cross, used in executions or torment.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The English term "cross" is derived from the Latin word crux. From about 1635 to 1645 AD. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Labarum[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]An upright pole with cross section to display a standard such as a flag, banner, or emblem. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Word Origin [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From Late Latin, and of obscure origin [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This standard was known by the name "[FONT=&quot]labarum"[/FONT]a word the etymology of which is very uncertain. The etymology of the word is unclear. Some derive it from Latin /labāre/ "to totter, or to waver." The labarum was also used to hold the ancient Babylonian sky-god emblem.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Patibulum[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is a establish fact that the two-beamed cross was in existence in the time of Yahshua, and that the word crux was used to refer to it. The crux was composed of two main pieces: The stipes, which is the upright pole, and the patibulum attached to it. The patibulum is the cross beam. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stipe[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stipe is an upright support. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From Latin [/FONT][FONT=&quot]stipes[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "log, post, tree trunk"[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stauros[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stauros[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (σταυρός) is the Greek word for stake or post.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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CherubRam

New member
Jesus was crucified on a cross. Either that,or it is a fairy tale because crosses are illustrated in the oldest Christian sites. The Romans used crosses- are you going to tell Rome they are wrong on their own history?

Sorry, but you are simply wrong @CherubRam

Learn to acknowledge context and the flexibility of words- a cross can easily be called a 'stake'- it's nevertheless a stick in the ground.

Christ was executed on a stake.
 

CherubRam

New member
This is not "rocket science". The permanent "poles" were erected at the crucifixion site. The victims were nailed to the X with 4 nails and then propped-up on the permanent "poles". After death, the nails were removed. Everything was "recycled".
Opinions are OK, but facts are better.
 

CherubRam

New member
Psalm 22

16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.


1 Peter 2

23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

The translation is correct. No problem with the word "tree."
 

beameup

New member
Opinions are OK, but facts are better.

Facts? Only laziness prevents one from searching the internet. :sherlock:
"Common Sense" however seems to be a rather "rare commodity".

BTW, there were 4 different "configurations" that the Romans used. The one illustrated would have been the easiest and most "efficient". Four nails, not through any bone (ie: wrist/pulse & behind the achilles tendon).
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
Origin of the Cross

A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament.

1. Ignore this fraud, as there is no such thing, as "the Greek."

2. 1 Corinthians 1:22 KJV

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


The LORD God: You want a sign?Very well... as it is written:


Exodus 12 KJV
21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Do exactlty this....take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason.


You are "drawing," making a "sign of the cross." Try it. See it?

And notice that the 12 tribes, in the wilderness, are arranged, "overhead," in the sign of a cross.



Romans 15:4 KJV

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


Matthew 11:15 KJV

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
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