Clarification: I agreed that we still sin. I did not agree to ~continual~ sin. Urging obedient and holy living is the opposite to continuous sin. Sanctification is the means and process of conquering continual sin. Continual sin is an unrepentant practice of sin, which scripture forbids. I John 3:4-9
If we are both still sinning, then we both are continuing to sin.
If we had completely stopped sinning then we would not be continuing to sin.
But we haven't stopped.
No one has.
In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to say that we sin every single day, and perhaps even multiple times a day.
Especially when you consider every single deed, every single word, and even every single thought.
That last one (every single thought) is a killer!
The only remedy for continual sin is the practice of righteousness. I John 3:10
Whoa!
That's by works. If it's by works then it is no longer grace.
Romans 4 KJV
(4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
(5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
We all are capable of committing sin,
Which means we do indeed continue to sin because no one has stopped sinning.
but it should not be the norm or our habitual practice.
Sure.
I think of "freed" when I read about liberty. By the grace of God, we have been freed from bondage to sin and enslavement to serving the devil. We have been repurchased and freed through divine redemption, and justified (forgiven) through faith in Christ, so that we can continually practice and serve righteousness instead of sin. Romans 3:21-26
I think of it the way Paul used it in the verse I quoted.
That we do indeed have the liberty to continue to sin (as we all do), but should be careful not to be stupid with that liberty.
"so that we can continually practice and serve righteousness instead of sin"
But that's not what happens to us. We don't continually practice righteousness instead of sin.
We continue to do both.
I do not believe saving grace is an excuse to continue in sin.
Then you are sinning
without an excuse/liberty/license.
It is grace that sets us free to be holy as God is holy, and serve (continually) His righteousness.
If we still sin, there is no way we CONTINUALLY serve righteousness.
I with you, do not think a believer can lose their salvation because of sin, but I also do not think a believer has any "excuse" to practice sin.
Excuse, liberty, license ----- no difference.
And yes, we do have that liberty/excuse/license, because the penalty for sinning has been completely paid by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Scripture says we do.
If we didn't have that
liberty/license/excuse, then we couldn't be told not to
use it to do stupid non-beneficial things.
What concerns me mostly about the MAD teaching, are the discouragements given against living righteously.
You're going to have to point me to who has discouraged right living.
:idunno:
I don't know of any MADs here that have ever discouraged right living.
All I have ever seen them say is that you cannot rely on your own meritorious living to save you.
Big difference.
And the reason we bring that up
A LOT is because of all the knuckleheads that come to TOL and start telling the BOC that they cannot be saved unless they merit it with their behavior.
That's the opposite of grace.
Grace is unmerited.
It is almost made out to be a sin, to act in any way in accordance with the will and word (LAW) of God. Faith must be passive, not active, or it is considered by MADists to be good works, and a denial of grace.
Whoa.
MADs here never say that doing the right thing is a sin.
What we do point out continually to all those that want to live by the law instead of grace is that THEY will have to keep every jot and title of the law perfectly or they will be found guilty of the whole law.
And since scripture says that the law has condemned everyone, then they need to find a remedy other their own obedience to save them.
Any activity of Holy living, formal worship, study outside restricted portions of Scripture, study of church history and languages, or "doing" anything is made out to be wrong .
If you try to drag those things in as a means of salvation, then yeah, we are going to holler about how wrong that is.
But just to do those things for your own pleasure, no problem.
How can Christians witness to and serve the righteousness of Jesus Christ, if they just sit on their ~laurels~ without turning from their sins or exhibit their love for God by living according to the will of the Father?
We haven't turned from our sins, Nang.
We still sin, more than likely every day.
And that's the problem that needs a guaranteed solution. Not a "trying" solution, but a guaranteed solution.
And we have that solution - the perfect righteousness and obedience of Christ.
Whew, these are getting long again!
But it's been nice to see our views expressed.
Maybe others can use some of our conversation to cause them to think on it a little more.
