Only Y-H-W-H is God, besides Him there is no god!

Elia

Well-known member
Elohim (plural) is used with singular forms in Genesis 1:1

Elohim and Echad
http://torahofmessiah.org/meaning-of-elohim-echad/
A typical example of the many word games Trinitarians and others use as they endeavor to promote their false god.
Adapted from The Journal of Hebraic Renewal, which reprinted it from Focus on the Kingdom magazine.

To support the commonly held teaching that God is a plural entity consisting of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit [1], Messianics that follow the primary Traditional Christian doctrines from which they came, as well as Traditional Christians, themselves, will appeal to two Hebrew words: Elohim (eloheem) and echad (echad, "ch" as in the Scottish "loch"). They assert that the Hebrew word, Elohim, indicates that God is a plural entity because it is the plural form of the word for God and is the title most often used for the God of Israel. Echad - used in the well-known "shema" of Deuteronomy 6:4 instructing Israel that their God is "one" - is asserted by them to show the plurality of God because, they say echad in the Hebrew actually indicates a compound, rather than an absolute, unity; that is, rather than a "simple" one, they say echad indicates a unity of more than one.

Each claim will now be examined.
Elohim

Elohim is the plural form of Eloah and appears closely related to El, which usually means "god", "God", or "mighty one". But IF we were right to translate Elohim as a plural word, the Bible would teach us that in the beginning, "Gods" created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1). The Bible would then support the idea that more than one God created the universe, spoke to Abraham, delivered Israel from bondage and continued dealing with them, etc., since Elohim is used throughout the Tanakh ("Old" Testament) as Israel's God(s). But virtually no Christian - Messianic or otherwise - would profess that there is more than one God.

So, how do we resolve this dilemma? And why do all the translations translate Elohim simply as "God" and not "Gods" when it refers to the true God?

In Biblical Hebrew, a noun that is plural in form is not necessarily plural in meaning - a fact most Messianic leaders realize, yet seem to ignore. For instance, the Hebrew words chayim (chayeem, "life") [2] and panim (paneem, "face", "presence", "countenance") [3] are plural in form, but almost always singular in meaning. Another word, adon, "lord", "master", [4] is often plural in form. In its plural form it is sometimes used of a single person - Abraham (Gen. 24:9-10), Joseph (Gen. 42:30,33), the king of Egypt (Gen. 40:1) and an anonymous "fierce king" under whose rule the Egyptians were prophesied to come (Isa. 19:4, NRSV). There are instances of other plural Hebrew words employed in the Hebrew Bible with singular meaning.

Equally striking is the fact that the same term, elohim, is used of the individual false gods of Israel's surrounding nations. Elohim is used of Dagon, the god of the Philistines (1 Sam. 5:7); of Chemosh, the god of Ammon and Moab (Jud. 11:24; 1 Kings 11:33); of Ashtarte (or Ashtoreth), the god(dess) of the Sidonians (1 Kings 11:33); of Milcom, another god of the Ammorites (1 Kings 11:33). In Smith's Bible Dictionary (NISBE) no plurality in any one of these gods is even hinted at. Additionally, in Ezra's prayer in Nehemiah 9:18, elohim is used to refer to the single golden calf made by Israel in the wilderness.

Elohim is also used of single human figures. Moses in both Exodus 4:16 and 7:1 and the Messianic king in Psalms 45:6 (verse 7 in the Hebrew Bible) are each referred to as elohim [5].

What all this indicates is that in Biblical Hebrew, plural nouns in general and Elohim in particular do not always have plural meanings. In the case of the word Elohim, in fact, it would appear as though we should almost always understand it as singular in meaning unless the context indicates that "gods" are referred to.

Hebrew scholars are entirely familiar with these facts (as are Christianized Messianic leaders). The expressions "plural of majesty" or "plural of rank" or "intensive plural" are sometimes used to describe this phenomenon of language (not just Hebrew) where the form of a word can be plural but its meaning is singular. The idea is that the plural stresses or exalts the importance of the person referred to. The following is a quotation regarding Elohim from the NISBE, in their article on "God, Names of":

The use of the plural form with singular meaning is not unique to Israel. Similar forms occur in pre-Israelite Babylonian and Canaanite texts in which a worshiper wishes to exalt a particular god above others. This form has been called the plural of majesty or the intensive plural because it implies that all the fullness of deity is concentrated in the one god. Elohim's being the most common word for God in the Tanakh thus conveys this idea. (Vol. 2, p. 505).

Smith's Bible Dictionary has this to say on the same subject in their article entitled "God":

The plural form of Elohim has given rise to much discussion. The fanciful idea that it referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God (p. 220).

But by no means is YHWH ever referred to by plural forms. In fact, whenever the people of God speak of Him in the Hebrew Bible using a pronoun, they ALWAYS employ the singular form. Whether it is the third person (He, Him, His) or the second person (You, Your, Thou, Thy) this is the case. The people of God understood their God to be a single Individual. [6]

Nor is He only referred to in the plural when "God" is the translated word. Two forms referred to above, El and Eloah used in the Tanakh to refer to the true God, are both singular in form. [7] When an Aramaic word for God, Elah, is used, it too appears to be always in its singular form when referring to the true God. [8]

The form of the verb used in Hebrew when Elohim the true God is the subject is also instructive. It is virtually always singular in form throughout the Tanakh. In Genesis 1, for example - where the reader is first introduced to Elohim the Creator - the Hebrew verb form is always in the third masculine singular whenever [9] we read that "Elohim created" or "Elohim said" or "Elohim made", etc. [10]

Finally, the Septuagint (known as "LXX"), the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible (probably translated in the third and second century B.C.E.) ALWAYS translated the Hebrew word for God in the singular (Gr. theos). The LXX version of the Old Testament is often cited in the New Testament instead of the Hebrew. [11]

Therefore - returning to the original argument (which usually includes the "Let us..." statement in Gen. 1:26) - if God must be regarded as a plural entity because He is referred to in a plural form, why then must He not be regarded as a singular entity since He is referred to in singular forms? Are not all these statements Holy Scripture? We could be left with a contradiction were it not for the many examples of plural forms with singular meanings in Hebrew, including the concept of "plural of majesty". The plural of majesty clarifies the usage of the plural form for the true God in the Tanakh. He is described by thousands and thousands of singular verbs and pronouns. Language has no more definite way of telling us that God is ONE Person, the Father of Yeshua - but definitely NOT Yeshua!

As a final proof, note the Messianic 22nd Psalm. I will quote from only a portion of this Psalm which, when read using common sense, CLEARLY shows that Yeshua (the prophetic focus of this Psalm) refers to God (Elohim and El) as HIS God (Elohim). I will include in parenthesis the Hebrew word translated as "God."

Psalm 22:1,2,10
1 My God (El), my God (El), why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? 2 O my God (Elohim), I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. ... 10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God (El) from my mother's belly.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

This single quote from Psalms - and there are other Messianic verses which present the same proof - PROVES that Yeshua is NOT God (Elohim), since he (Yeshua) refers to the ONE, True God as HIS Elohim! Verse 10 also proves how Yeshua worshipped the same God we should worship from his birth! Thus, since Yeshua very clearly referred to the God HE WORSHIPPED as Elohim, the term Elohim cannot possibly refer to Yeshua in the sense of making him God!
Echad

The other main argument from the Hebrew used to teach that God is a "plural" entity is that the Hebrew word echad in the shema of Deuteronomy 6:4 means, not a simple "one", but rather a "compound unity" of one, a "togetherness". Those who teach this will often also teach than there is a different word for a "simple" one, yachid, so that the absence of this word in Deuteronomy 6:4 is, apparently to them, significant.

First, it should be noted that when one learns the Hebrew numbers, it is echad, not yachid, that is the Hebrew for the number "one": echad is one, shenayim is two, shalosh is three, arba is four, etc. Any Hebrew grammar book, whether of Biblical or modern Hebrew, would demonstrate that echad, not yachid, is the everyday Hebrew word for the numeral "one".

And when one looks in the Tanakh itself at the frequency and usage of the two words - echad and yachid - it is very quickly and easily seen that echad, not yachid, is in fact the standard Hebrew word for a simple one. Echad is used over 900 times in the Hebrew Bible, making it the most frequently used adjective in the Tanakh. Here are some examples of its usage where the word "one" is translated from echad: "one place" (Gen. 1:9); "one man" (Gen. 42:13); "one law" (Ex. 12:49); "one side" (Ex. 25:12); "one ewe lamb" (Lev. 14:10); "one of his brethren" (Lev. 25:48); "one rod" (Num. 17:3); "one soul" (Num. 31:28); "one of these cities" (Deut. 4:42); "one way" (Deut. 28:7); "one ephah" (1 Sam. 1:24); "one went out into the field" (11 Kings 4:39); "one shepherd" (Ezek. 37:24); "one basket" (Jer. 24:2); "one [thing]" (Ps. 27:4); "Two are better than one" (Ecc. 4:9); "one day or two" (Ezra 10:13).

Sometimes it is simply part of a number, like "eleven" (echad + 'asar, one plus ten), in , for example Genesis 32:22. Sometimes it is as well translated by an indefinite article (a[n]): "a new cart" (1 Sam. 6:7); "a juniper tree" (1 Kings 19:4,5); "a book" (Jer. 51:60).

Perhaps most importantly, echad clearly has the meaning of single, alone, ONLY one, or JUST one, the ideal of a limit of one (Num. 10:4; Josh. 17:14; Esth. 4:11; Isa. 51:2). In Deuteronomy 17:6, for example, it really isn't precise English to translate echad merely as "one". For if the "one" witness referred to is the second of the third witness, then that one witness is enough to convict the hypothetical person of murder. The meaning is that a person must not be put to death of the evidence of only one witness (which is the way the NRSV translates it). Echad means "one" and ONLY one.

Some make the argument that because echad is used in passages such as Gen. 1:5 (evening and morning were "day one [echad]", or "first day"), Gen. 2:24 (a husband and wife shall be "one" flesh) and Ezek. 37:17 (two sticks are to become "one" stick), echad is therefore meant to be understood as some kind of a compound unity. To begin with, such examples make up but a very small minority of the uses of echad, the vast majority being of the variety listed above. It is improper exegesis to define a word on the basis of a small percentage of its usage. But even this extreme minority of usage does not mean that echad actually has a different meaning than a simply one in these passages. In Gen. 1:5, "day" is the word that has "parts" to it (i.e., "evening" and "morning" make up the day), not echad. In Gen. 2:24, "flesh" acts as the collective noun (what the man and the woman as comprise together). [12] The key factor in all such passages - a factor missing from Deut. 6:4 - is that two or more "parts" are mentioned, such that the reader can immediately discern that there is some kind of "coming together" of the people or things mentioned, usually for just one purpose or goal. Echad, in fact, must maintain its meaning of "just one" for these expressions to convey their intended sense. To make our point clear: Deut. 6:4 does not say, "YHWH our God, though three (or two or whatever plural number you like), is one." There is no hint of "coming together" here. The verse says that YHWH our God is plainly, simply, one.

Once again, scholarship is in agreement. The Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Lexicon, the standard Hebrew lexicon of the Bible used in seminaries, list eight ways echad is used - e.g. meaning "each/every," or "a certain," or "only," etc. - but there is no mention or hint in the entire echad article that echad ever means any kind of compound unity. [13] And the "echad" article in the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament also nowhere teaches that echad implies a compound unity. It says that Deuteronomy 6:4 is essentially saying that YHWH is the one and only God for Israel (Vol. I p. 196).

Yachid, on the other hand, is a very rarely used word in the Tanakh, and it is employed in a special sense when it is used. It is found a grand total of 12 times in the entire Tanakh, three of those times in the same passage (Gen.22, referring to Isaac as Abraham's "only" son), so virtually any argument based on its absence from a Bible text is necessarily weak. Its meaning is restricted to a unique, priceless possession, whether a person or thing (Isaac in Gen. 22:2, 12, 16; one's soul - lit. "only one" - in Ps. 22:20(21), 35:17); or to solitary, desolate, isolated or lonely people (Ps. 25:16, 68:6(7)). There is a "neediness" seen in all that yachid applies to in the Tanakh. YHWH our God is not dependent on anyone. Based on Biblical usage, therefore, it would be entirely inappropriate to use yachid as an adjective for God for any reason.
Conclusion

In conclusion, neither the word Elohim nor the word echad supports the notion of a plurality in God. The plural form Elohim when used of God does not have to mean a plural entity. In Hebrew, plural forms can be singular in meaning. this is sometimes referred to as a plural of majesty or plural of rank. The very term elohim is used of single, foreign gods and of the Messiah. But YHWH is, in fact, always referred to by grammatically singular forms and used with verbs in the singular (even when the plural form Elohim is the subject). Finally, the Greek Old Testament, sometimes quoted in the New Testament, always translates the term for God - whether the Hebrew word is singular or plural - in the singular Greek form.

Echad, rather than being any kind of support for a plural God, teaches the opposite. It means "one" and "only one." God is one.
 

beameup

New member
There is no "Jewish Religion" because there is no Temple. Without a Temple, you cannot obey Moses, as G-d gave Moses specific commandments to follow in order to obey G-d's Religion.
You had to literally recreate Judaism, after 70AD, by using so-called "sages" who completely disregarded G-d's Religion as given by G-d to Moses and created the false-religion of Talmudic Judaism.

Under Mosaic Judaism it was recognized that there was a Messiah ben Joseph and a Messiah ben David, and many believed that they were one-and-the-same.

One erroneous Talmudic teaching was that Yeshuah couldn't be the Messiah because he "wasn't from the line of David". Yeshuah was "adopted" by his earthly "father" Joseph and thus was eligible to be Messiah. However, Joseph was still under the "blood-curse" of Jehoiachin, so he could not have had a Messianic biological heir. However, Mary was not under any "curse" to her descendants as she was a descendant of David through Nathan. So, Yeshuah qualified to be Messiah as he was a descendant of King David.

Jeremiah 22:24,28,30 As I live, saith the LORD, though Jehoiachin the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence;
Is this man Jehoiachin a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
 
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Elia

Well-known member
One erroneous Talmudic teaching was that Yeshuah couldn't be the Messiah because he "wasn't from the line of David". Yeshuah was "adopted" by his earthly "father" Joseph and thus was eligible to be Messiah.

Bs"d

There is no such a thing as that somebody can become through adoption from the line of David, just like nobody can become a priest or Levite through adoption.

Just doesn't exist.
 

Elia

Well-known member
is that your interpretation?

Bs"d

I don't interpret, I just look what is written there.

"Interpret" means "putting an other meaning into it".

I just go by what the text says.

Many people, when the Bible says "God is one" interpret that as "God is three".

I stick to "God is one".
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Bs"d

I don't interpret, I just look what is written there.

"Interpret" means "putting an other meaning into it".

I just go by what the text says.

Many people, when the Bible says "God is one" interpret that as "God is three".

I stick to "God is one".

so everyone interprets but you?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Echad, rather than being any kind of support for a plural God, teaches the opposite. It means "one" and "only one." God is one.

Ezekiel said, "And I will make them one (echad) nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all." (Ezekiel 37:22)

Since according to you "echad" means one and only one that means Ezekiel was mistaken by saying two will become one. Have you caught a lot of other mistakes in the Tanakh?
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

There is no such a thing as that somebody can become through adoption from the line of David, just like nobody can become a priest or Levite through adoption.

Just doesn't exist.

In Exodus 2:10, Moses was adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter, receiving all the rights, privileges and duties of a biological son, being educated as a prince and could have been Pharaoh.
In Judges 11:1-2, Jephthah is described as being the son of Gilead and a harlot, who was driven out of his hometown by his half brothers so as to deny his inheritance. To gain an inheritance, his father would have needed to adopt him.
Of course the Talmudic "rabbis" can come up with and phony doctrine that they want to even where the O.T. is essentially silent on the issue.

Mary was from the line of David through Nathan. So Yeshuah was a "son of David".
Genesis 3:14a & 15 And the LORD God said unto the serpent [nachash]... I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
serpent = nachash = serpent n., deceiver v., "shining one" adj. The Devil is real and wants your soul. The Devil is a liar and so are the Talmudic "rabbis".
 

Elia

Well-known member
In Exodus 2:10, Moses was adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter, receiving all the rights, privileges and duties of a biological son, being educated as a prince and could have been Pharaoh.

Bs"d

Where is that written? I've never seen anything like that in the Torah.

And anyway, the laws of the heathens are not the laws of God.

In Judges 11:1-2, Jephthah is described as being the son of Gilead and a harlot, who was driven out of his hometown by his half brothers so as to deny his inheritance. To gain an inheritance, his father would have needed to adopt him.

Of course, because his father must establish the fact that he is his father. Normally that goes through marriage, but with a harlot things are a bit more complicated.

But still, Gilead was his natural father. And then the blood line continues.

And also, an inheritance is something else than things which can only go through a blood line, like being a priest, or being a Levite, or being a descendant of David.

Of course an adopted son is not in the blood line of David.

Mary was from the line of David through Nathan. So Yeshuah was a "son of David".

Nowhere is a genealogy of Mary to be found. Second, genealogies never go through a woman, only through the males.

Genesis 3:14a & 15 And the LORD God said unto the serpent [nachash]... I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
serpent = nachash = serpent n., deceiver v., "shining one" adj. The Devil is real and wants your soul. The Devil is a liar and so are the Talmudic "rabbis".

The Talmudic rabbis, which are cursed all in the NT, know more about God and His laws than you will ever know.

It is the NT which is based on lies, it is the NT what tells you to throw the laws of God overboard, it is the NT which introduces a new man-god, because of which billions of people are led to idolatry, by worshipping a man in stead of the one and only God Y-H-W-H who is one.

"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
."

Ex 20:1+2
 

Elia

Well-known member
Ezekiel said, "And I will make them one (echad) nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all." (Ezekiel 37:22)

Since according to you "echad" means one and only one that means Ezekiel was mistaken by saying two will become one. Have you caught a lot of other mistakes in the Tanakh?

Bs'd

"And they shall be one flesh" ..... In the Hebrew: "wehayu levasar echad" ..... This text is claimed by Christianity to prove that the word 'echad' can point to, or be, a 'composite unity', one being made up of more than one.

'Echad', one, can point to a composite unity. Of course. One can also point to a million: One million houses. Here one points to a million, but one is still one. We have here one million, and not a million millions. The fact that one points to something else does not change the meaning of one. One is one, and one stays one.

The claim that 'echad', one, can be a composite unity, with as proof the above verse, is simply wrong. In the above verse the flesh, made up of two people, is the composite unity, and not the 'echad', the one. Compare this to the following: One group of people. Here the group is the composite unity, and not the word one. We don't have here a composite unity of composite unities, but we have here one composite unity (the group of people). One is one and one stays one.

And last but not least; what Christianity does here, is comparing apples to steaks. The verse 'they will be one flesh' cannot be compared to 'God is one'. In the first verse the one is a number, telling us that there will be only one flesh. But in the second verse the one is not a number telling us that there is one God, here the one is an adjective, telling us that God IS one. (and not three) Here the one describes the essence of God, it doesn't give us the amount of Gods. Therefore you can not draw a conclusion from the first verse and apply it to the other.

And of course, Christianity must not forget that they not only have the battle with the Hebrew word 'echad', but also with the Greek word 'eis', also meaning one. In Mark 12:28-34 Jesus has a discussion with a scribe. The scribe asks Jesus what is the first (that is here 'most important', not first in order, because many commandments were given earlier) commandment, and Jesus answers: "Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." Here Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4. That is in the Greek: 'Kurios' (Lord) 'eis' (one) 'estin' (is). When he said this to the scribe the scribe answers him: "You are right teacher; you have truly said that he is one (eis), and there is no other then he." Upon this answers Jesus: "You are not far from the kingdom of God." So basically everybody agrees that God is one, except for the Christians. Therefore; the Christians must not only twist, deform, and corrupt the meaning of 'echad', meaning one, into three, but also the Greek word 'eis'. The question is of course: How often can you pull stunts like that, and still have some credibility left?



For Christianity it is literally a matter of life and death to obscure the fact that God is one, because when God is one, then He is not three, and then the trinity goes out the window and the Christians are exposed as the idol worshippers they are. Therefore also here many Bible translations are corrupted. This is the answer of the scribe to Jesus: “You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other then he." The scribe says: “HE IS ONE”. He does not say that there is one God, he says: “He (referring to God) IS ONE, and there is no other then he.” Take good notice that the scribe does not use the word “God”, the scribe refers to God with the word “He”. The word “God” does not appear in the answer of the scribe. But look now at some translations:

All versions of the King James: And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: (why else “King James ONLY!)

Youngs literal translation: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He; Youngs literal translation is not so literal here…

Worldwide English: And the scribe said to him, `Well, Teacher, in truth thou hast spoken that there is one God, and there is none other but He;

Gone is the fact that God is one, replaced by the fact that there is one God. Christianity can live with one God. One God who is three that is: God the Father, god the son, and god the holy ghost.

Christianity can’t live with one God who is one, like the Bible teaches. Therefore the translations are corrupted, in order to cover up the fact that God is one.

But honour to whom honour is due, there are modern day Christian translations who translate this in the right way:

New International Version: "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.” The word “God” should have been “He”, but the message is correct.

New American Standard Bible: The scribe said to Him, ""Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that he is one, and there is no one else beside him.

Revised Standard Version: And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Darby translation: And the scribe said to him, Right, teacher; thou hast spoken according to [the] truth. For he is one, and there is none other besides him;





Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE! Deuteronomy 6:4



All the nations may walk in the name of their gods; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever! Micah 4:5
 

beameup

New member
Nowhere is a genealogy of Mary to be found. Second, genealogies never go through a woman, only through the males.
That's a Talmudic lie. Of course they forbid the reading of the New Testament.
Mary's Genealogy is in Luke 3:23-38. Mary's name is left out, but clearly implied in the genealogy.
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, Luke 3:23
There are no "rules" concerning the seed of David, the only "rules" concern the Levites and descendancy. Besides, Yeshuah Messiah is of the Priesthood of Melkisetek and a King descended from David. Thus, Yeshuah Messiah will serve as both King and Priest in his Millennial Kingdom.

The Talmudic rabbis, which are cursed all in the NT, know more about God and His laws than you will ever know.
Wrong again. You've been listening to your false teachers again. Yeshuah condemned the Pharisees who, on top of your 613 Commandments, added thousands of additional "commandments" to put you in bondage.

It is the NT which is based on lies, it is the NT what tells you to throw the laws of God overboard, it is the NT which introduces a new man-god, because of which billions of people are led to idolatry, by worshipping a man in stead of the one and only God
It is your Talmudic "rabbis" that have been lying to you since the destruction of the Temple. They don't want you to read the "Greek". The reason why they push the "Hebrew" is because paleo-Hebrew had a vocabulary of only 3,000 words, and they can twist the language to fit their lies.
Why are they the only ones who condemn the Septuagint??? Because the Koine Greek has a vocabulary of 10s of thousands of words, and the Jews that translated from the Hebrew to the Koine Greek told you precisely what was meant in the Hebrew text. Your Talmudic liars don't much like reading the truth of scripture.

Essentially, the Talmudics "recreated" the Jewish Religion following the destruction of the temple in 70AD in order to "keep themselves employed".

In many ways the Talmudic "rabbis" have created a G-d much like the Muslims. He seems distant and unreachable and "above it all".
On the other hand, Yeshuah demonstrated the true love and care of G-d and the great Passover sacrifice that the "lamb of G-d" would make, on Passover, in order to save mankind.
He was sacrificed on Passover, was in the grave on Unleavened Bread, and rose from the dead on Firstfruits. Fifty days later, on Pentecost, he sent Ruach Ha-Kodesh to dwell in believers.
 

Elia

Well-known member
That's a Talmudic lie. Of course they forbid the reading of the New Testament.
Mary's Genealogy is in Luke 3:23-38. Mary's name is left out, but clearly implied in the genealogy.

Bs"d

That's a brutal and obvious Christian lie. Everybody who can read can see how Luke says that it is the genealogy of JOSEF. There is no Mary to be found in that whole chapter.

There are no "rules" concerning the seed of David, the only "rules" concern the Levites and descendancy. Besides, Yeshuah Messiah is of the Priesthood of Melkisetek and a King descended from David. Thus, Yeshuah Messiah will serve as both King and Priest in his Millennial Kingdom.

Melchitsedek was a non-Jewish priest. In Jewish priesthood only a descendant of Aharon the brother of Moses can be a priest.
Therefore it is impossible that JC can be a priest.

And the messiah must be a son of David and Solomon, and about that it is written: "When thy days are fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, that shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;
15 but my lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thy house and thy kingdom shall be made sure for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.[/quote]

You see, no adopted sons, but sons "that shall proceed out of thy bowels", or natural sons.

Wrong again. You've been listening to your false teachers again. Yeshuah condemned the Pharisees who, on top of your 613 Commandments, added thousands of additional "commandments" to put you in bondage.

Who is JC that he thinks he can condemn anything?

Should we take carpenters seriously when it comes to God and the Bible? Or should we rely on Scribes and Bible scholars?

It is your Talmudic "rabbis" that have been lying to you since the destruction of the Temple.

What did they lie about?

They don't want you to read the "Greek". The reason why they push the "Hebrew" is because paleo-Hebrew had a vocabulary of only 3,000 words, and they can twist the language to fit their lies.
Why are they the only ones who condemn the Septuagint??? Because the Koine Greek has a vocabulary of 10s of thousands of words, and the Jews that translated from the Hebrew to the Koine Greek told you precisely what was meant in the Hebrew text. Your Talmudic liars don't much like reading the truth of scripture.

You think that a translation is better than the original?? :confused::confused::confused:

Here is what the RCC says about the LXX:

Here are a few excerpts from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, here to be found:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ from the entry "Septuagint" which show the reliability of the LXX:

The Christians had recourse to it constantly in their controversies with the Jews, who soon recognized its imperfections, and finally rejected it in favour of the Hebrew text or of more literal translations (Aquila, Theodotion).

On account of its diffusion alone the hellenizing Jews and early Christians, copies of the Septuagint were multiplied; and as might be expected, many changes, deliberate as well as involuntary, crept in.

The Septuagint Version, while giving exactly as to the form and substance the true sense of the Sacred Books, differs nevertheless considerably from our present Hebrew text.

Again, we must not think that we have at present the Greek text exactly as it was written by the translators; the frequent transcriptions during the early centuries, as well as the corrections and editions of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius impaired the purity of the text: voluntarily or involuntarily the copyists allowed many textual corruptions, transpositions, additions, and omissions to creep into the primitive text of the Septuagint.

So the Catholics openly admit they corrupted the LXX.

Essentially, the Talmudics "recreated" the Jewish Religion following the destruction of the temple in 70AD in order to "keep themselves employed".

In many ways the Talmudic "rabbis" have created a G-d much like the Muslims. He seems distant and unreachable and "above it all".
On the other hand, Yeshuah demonstrated the true love and care of G-d and the great Passover sacrifice that the "lamb of G-d" would make, on Passover, in order to save mankind.
He was sacrificed on Passover, was in the grave on Unleavened Bread, and rose from the dead on Firstfruits. Fifty days later, on Pentecost, he sent Ruach Ha-Kodesh to dwell in believers.

Like the pagans you worship a human being, or statues.

God is not physical. And He strongly forbids the worship of a statue or a human being:

"You saw no form of any kind the day Y-H-W-H spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things Y-H-W-H your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."
Deut 4:15-19
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

The Septuagint Version, while giving exactly as to the form and substance the true sense of the Sacred Books, differs nevertheless considerably from our present Hebrew text.

Again, we must not think that we have at present the Greek text exactly as it was written by the translators; the frequent transcriptions during the early centuries, as well as the corrections and editions of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius impaired the purity of the text: voluntarily or involuntarily the copyists allowed many textual corruptions, transpositions, additions, and omissions to creep into the primitive text of the Septuagint.

So the Catholics openly admit they corrupted the LXX.

Quoting the corrupt Catholics is as bad as quoting your corrupt Talmudic "rabbis". The Catholics have an "agenda" just like your Talmudic "rabbis". Everyone knows that the Catholics preferred Latin (Jerome's translation).

The fact is is that Jews were commissioned by Jerusalem to translate from the Hebrew to the Koine Greek in the 3rd Century BCE. It's obvious that the Talmudics prefer a "simpler" language so they can "manipulate" it to say what they want it to say. They want to hide the embarrassment that they condemned their own Messiah to death. After 70AD there was a "mad-scramble" to re-make Judaism without "Moses" because the Temple was kaput. No sacrifices = no salvation.

I posted this on another forum:
I understand that the Hebrew language (the one Moses used) is extremely limited
in it's vocabulary (about 3,000 words). A lot of words have to do "double-duty"
(or even triple or quad-duty). In this respect, Hebrew is open to a lot of (shall we say)
"flexibility". I suppose those "experts" in the Current Era have a lot of personal
"flexibility" in determining what the text is "supposed to say" when translated.
The Koine Greek, on the other hand, is not so "flexible" to interpretation.
Having an estimated vocabulary of some 200,000 words and very strict grammar
rules
, the Koine Greek would precisely reflect the meaning of the paleo-Hebrew.

Anyone determined to suppress the Greek Old Testament would do so with
an "agenda". They would have to create an "uncertainty" of the accuracy
of the LXX we have received. The 1000 CE "Masoretic Text" would certainly
not have these "translation" restrictions.

The Septuagint clearly states, in the Greek, that a virgin shall conceive
No wonder the Talmudics prefer the stone-age language.
 

beameup

New member
PS:
Bs"d
Melchitsedek was a non-Jewish priest. In Jewish priesthood only a descendant of Aharon the brother of Moses can be a priest.
Therefore it is impossible that JC can be a priest.

That's interesting, because according to Moses in the Torah in Exodus 19:5-6:
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

So just what "order" of Priests is Moses referring to??? LOL
 

KingdomRose

New member
Bs"d

No, that is the one and only God Y-H-W-H who dropped by at Abrahams tent.

How difficult can that be?? It is clearly written there.

The Christian Greek Scriptures tell us that Jesus in his pre-human existence was "the Word." That means he was YHWH's spokesman. It was undoubtedly he who appeared to Abraham, representing YHWH.

YHWH Himself could not be contained on a little speck of a planet within this vast universe that He created.
 

KingdomRose

New member
God eternally exists in three persons.
Too bad that some just cannot "grasp" this.
There are plenty of examples right in the Old Testament.

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord['adown] unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. [note that this is the same command given to Moses on Sinai].
Yeshuah 5:13-15

No, there are not ANY examples of God being three persons anywhere in the Bible. Including the one you cited above. YHWH is named as the Most High (Psalm 83:18, KJV) and "the only true God" (John 17:3). Jesus called Him "my God." (John 20:17) Obviously God is not three persons with one of them being Jesus.
 

KingdomRose

New member
A simple "man" can never bring about "world peace" and heal the earth. It just ain't gonna happen.
A glorified Son of God, on the other hand, can come to earth, in all his glory, and heal it.

Psalm 2
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord 'Adonay shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. *The Time of Jacob's Trouble*

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. *Yeshua's incarnation*
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. *Now THIS is the REAL Messiah*

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him [Yeshuah].

Well, guess what. Yeshuah is going to do just that very shortly! His timetable is just different than yours.
 
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