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I'm still waiting for him to change "green" pastures to some other color. :juggle:
ECT Only a D'ist would poo-poo Holford's victory
- Thread starter Interplanner
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"This is an open arena, fella,.."-Interloper fella
He thinks he takes off on Eagle Eye Barn, like us, Mayor!
SaulToPaul 2
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Yes, his thinly veiled arrogance disguised in the vulgar vernacular of the 1960s Mayberry is a disingenious
attempt at larceny, a larceny of the worst sort where the gospel event is minimized in favor of homespun ribbing and the NHNE via Mt24A is crumpling at the feet of 2P2P.
Interplanner
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What you have agreed on is foolish. Holford won that round against secularism and you stand there and pee on him. Who or what are you?
There is no jeopardy to the Gospel anywhere in my materials. It's Acts 13. God was in Christ dealing with mens sins. Your posts are hyper-ignorant.
What is forensic evidence? Babies who grow to be adults in 35 years and live through the destruction of Israel? Did you mean objective reality like that instead of Scofield phlegm?
The kingdom of our God will become the kingdom of this world, sings the Rev, in the NHNE. what is your proglem?
Sheep do not like flash flood water, and are suckers for toxic water. Have you ever raised or studied them Rd, or are "sheep" a synthetic piece of flannel from Sunday School?
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I know NOTHING about the debate and have never said ANYTHING about it.
Nonsense.
I have not used that term, so you should probably ask those that have.
I don't follow Scofield.
I have no "proglem". The book of Revelation is completely about Israel and their future.
The word in Psalm 23 is NOT the word for TOXIC. Only someone that wants to FORCE their will on the Bible would try to make it such.
You "out rulzed" me, Mayor!
Why Holford?
In the early third century, Clement of Alexandria made it clear that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was the fulfillment of the words of Christ Jesus, Revelation, and Daniel's 70 weeks.
Was Clement of Alexandria infallible, weakling?
Interplanner
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Because he took on a 'modern' destructive skeptic and showed the supernatural power of God as preserved in history.
His effort won the day. Payne was nearly shut down and could hardly publish in England. And as you can see, when the Huxley's tried to undermine christianity in the next generation, guess what topic they avoided?
SaulToPaul 2
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Paynian tribute for you at this time is congruent with the destructive skepticism I see in some of your own views, which if given heed, over time, and in nuanced situations, could propogate narcissitic endeavors leading us away from Eph 2A and Eph 3D, which should be grounding forces for all who are seeking the NHNE event and whose mission is the gospel event. Agreed?
Interplanner
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The D'ist is supposed to say: "Stop complaining about D'ism; they produced more missionaries in the 20th century than any other sect."
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Was he some sort of Pope? Only they never get anything wrong. :juggle::carryon:
Interplanner
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Church history is the echo chamber of the NT. It helps to know some. It seems your friends Tam, STP and Must have found that Holford and Payne are relative equals, because surely it is as sinful to read the NT historically as to try to blow it out of the water like Payne.
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- I don't know anything about Holdford
- I don't know anything about Payne
- You don't know anything about the NT
Interplanner
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In the early 1800s, Thomas Payne was one of England's leading destructive skeptic authors, seeking to completely undermine the basis and role of any religion, really, but in England that would mean Protestant Christianity. Payne published for a while--the kind of material like the Huxleys later--that would back up a step and bludgeon the reader with atheism, and make the reader then think that certain things Christ did could not possibly have happened. Or other things in the Bible.
Pastor Peter Holford counter attacked this with his knowledge of the destruction of Jerusalem in 66+ AD. I don't recall where his initial interest came from. I do know that the Reformation had developed quite a substantial amount of material on this so it was much more common knowledge than today. In Munich, Germany, for ex., there is a huge (4m x 6m) mural of the event with lots of historic detail but also done in a way that makes a theological statement. It is from the late 1600s. By theological statement, I mean that it shows four angels at work behind the scenes as well as Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul above them 'from heaven' speaking to Israel as they hold scrolls. As you know, John does not have much of anything on the event, except what Caiaphas attempted to stop. (Some NT scholars say the reason John does not is because of the Rev...)
I'll try to find the link on the mural.
Holford began a circuit of meetings showing the undeniable supernatural origin and divinity of Christ in announcing with sharp detail that the destruction of Jerusalem was coming. The result was that Payne was pretty much shut down. It would be like Lee Stroebel today defeating Sam Harris, but it was even better; English courts decided Payne could not publish at all for a while. Apparently Payne went to America to try to get some traction.
When the Huxley stream of atheism and uniformitarianism launched its effort, there was one topic they dared not touch: the destruction of Jerusalem, one of the largest and best documented calamities of the ancient world, and supernatural, and predicted in obvious documentation. The bizarre thing is that it completely dissappeared from 'Bible Christian' churches since then, in favor of supposed miraculous 'return to the land' theories.
In the Bible church I was raised in, it was taboo to mention Josephus; you might as well have said you were kissing at church or cussing in public.
Interplanner
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Here's another by Roberts. I believe the German one is by Kaulbach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege...hing_Slaying_Burning_Chemical_reactions_b.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege...hing_Slaying_Burning_Chemical_reactions_b.jpg
Interplanner
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Interplanner
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It is a picture like 1000 other pictures. There was the bread from heaven, but now Christ is that. Amos 9 says there will be replanting in their land but that is the unshakeable kingdom of Heb 12. Did I mention that was in HEBREWS? Last I checked, D'ists were insisting that Hebrews was ONLY for Israel, but they never see the unshakeable kingdom!
Isaiah 10 (Rom 9) says 'the sentence was delivered with speed and finality.' That's the unfortunate outcome for Israel. Finality is...final.
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More vain philosophy from someone that always interprets God's Word based on some sort of outside opinions about it.
Who are the HEBREWS? Why was that book written to THEM?
In the unshakable kingdom, Israel has the lead. The kings of the gentiles come to THEM.
Rev 21:22-26 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. (21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. (21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
This is JUST as Isaiah also said that it would be.
Isa 60:10-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:10) And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. (60:11) Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that [men] may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and [that] their kings [may be] brought. (60:12) For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, [those] nations shall be utterly wasted.
You remember Isaiah right? That prophet of Israel.
P.S. Again, don't toss out entire chapters.... be SPECIFIC. Quote the verses that you are talking about.