Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.

[False Prophet]

Personally, I read and study out of the, New King James Version.
All Bibles essentially say the same thing: GOSPEL!
New Century Version
20 They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. 21 Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them. 22 What they did is like this true saying: “A dog goes back to what it has thrown up,”[d] and, “After a pig is washed, it goes back and rolls in the mud.” 2 peter 2
Here was just one more buster for unconditional eternal security. These people are freed from sin and corruption, but they return right back to it; the last state is worse off for them than the first.
Finally: There used to be false prophets among God’s people, just as you will have some false teachers in your group. They will secretly teach things that are wrong—teachings that will cause people to be lost. 2 peter 2

 

[intojoy]

Will someone please address the parable, the whole parable, and nothing but the parable

Thorns:
The convinced believer, commits to deeper biblical knowledge, yet because of the cares of this life such as money this believer still saved but unfruitful because his fruitful ability is choked out by the cares of this world.

Wayside:
Unbelievers, unsaved

Good Ground:
Believers that reproduce spiritual fruit due to their ever increasing knowledge of the word of God, not emotionally oriented believers that get motivated by the appearance and lure of the supernatural but the scriptural mature believers who attend the midweek bible studies and dig deeper into the word than their stony ground (shallow emotionally driven) and thorny ground (biblically knowledgeable but deceived by the mind of this world) brothers and sisters who for the above Jesus given reasons fail to reproduce spiritually.

The picture is fruitfulness over against non fruitfulness and not salvation or loss of salvation. 3 types of saved believers and one not saved at all.

 

[iouae]

Yes, it's not in the DNA, that's physical, it's in the human spirit. Humans are born incomplete, they lack God's Spirit.

For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. (2 Corinthians 2:11-12 NKJV)​

Did God deliberately corrupt the human spirit making it more difficult for Him to save them?

Every man is going to sin by Himself eventually, so why would God try to facilitate this?

Where do we get this idea of a fallen nature?

Can you define what that human spirit is, and say whether it is a supernatural part of man or not.

 

[iouae]

Thorns:
The convinced believer, commits to deeper biblical knowledge, yet because of the cares of this life such as money this believer still saved but unfruitful because his fruitful ability is choked out by the cares of this world.

Wayside:
Unbelievers, unsaved

Good Ground:
Believers that reproduce spiritual fruit due to their ever increasing knowledge of the word of God, not emotionally oriented believers that get motivated by the appearance and lure of the supernatural but the scriptural mature believers who attend the midweek bible studies and dig deeper into the word than their stony ground (shallow emotionally driven) and thorny ground (biblically knowledgeable but deceived by the mind of this world) brothers and sisters who for the above Jesus given reasons fail to reproduce spiritually.

The picture is fruitfulness over against non fruitfulness and not salvation or loss of salvation. 3 types of saved believers and one not saved at all.

Again nice

But does the believer on rocky ground "wither away" meaning lose his salvation?

 

[intojoy]

Again nice



But does the believer on rocky ground "wither away" meaning lose his salvation?

The only way to determine loss of salvation is by weighing all of the scriptures we learn of salvation against difficult passages that seem to contradict salvation by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing.

There are just too much evidence in scripture that says a person is saved by grace apart from works. Therefore in light of the overwhelming amount of writing concerning grace, we have to attempt to harmonize all passages to fit the biblical doctrine of soteriology.

The different types of ground are the different types of believer's preparation of their soil. Surely you and we all know believers who live moral lives yet do not spend time studying scripture and are therefore impotent to discuss biblical truths in any depth. That does not mean they lose salvation it just means they are lazy and immature. Some of the rocky ground believers wear their faith on their sleeves like bumper stickers.

 

[jamie]

Did God deliberately corrupt the human spirit making it more difficult for Him to save them?

God didn't corrupt anything but he made human nature to be what it is.

Some people use weights to develop physical strength, we develop spiritual strength by overcoming our human nature by God's Spirit. That's why he gives it to us.

However, I think we can all agree that God creates evil.

 

[jamie]

Can you define what that human spirit is, and say whether it is a supernatural part of man or not.

Spiritual software.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I think we can all agree that God creates evil.

Nah, just you and B57. You and he are our resident heretics.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Blaming God for evil/sin is about the lowest a couple of phony Christians
can go. B57 and Nanja are also our resident phony Christians.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They're a couple of phonies but, at least they're passionate about
their phoniness.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Spiritual software.

Another, Other speaks.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

At least they have each other.

 

[iouae]

God didn't corrupt anything but he made human nature to be what it is.

Some people use weights to develop physical strength, we develop spiritual strength by overcoming our human nature by God's Spirit. That's why he gives it to us.

However, I think we can all agree that God creates evil.

Is 45

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I can think of two/three ways God "creates evil".

1) God curses folks like Adam and Eve. He then makes thorns grow as we see today, makes childbirth harder than need be.

2) God "creates evil" when He gave the law. When God gave the 613 laws to Israel, breaking these became evil. Telling Adam not to eat The Tree made it evil. Before that law, eating that tree would just have been another tree to eat from.

3) By giving us free will, it is almost inevitable that we will do evil, so that is passively creating evil. Likewise God, loosely speaking, created the conditions where Lucifer could become Satan.

I do disagree with where you are going however.
I disagree with the idea that God gave man a "fallen nature" which is a supernatural "something" which can get passed down like a generational curse.

 

[iouae]

Spiritual software.

Spiritual software?


Most churches teach that man has an "immortal soul" or spiritual component.

The Churches of God rejected that idea (correctly) but replaced the exact same concept of an immortal soul with a "spirit in man". They likened this to a cassette tape which stores info about the person so that when a person died, God could reload their personality (reboot them) and resurrect them into a new spirit body.

The second death was supposedly when God threw one's cassette into the lake of fire, destroying one utterly. Thus they likened the "spirit in man" to "spiritual software".

I reject that idea too, believing more like the Jews do, that there is nothing spiritual or everlasting in man. The Heb and Greek concepts of "spirit" is simply "breath", "wind", or "life". Greek (pneuma) and Hebrew (ruwach) are remarkably identical and consistent in this regard. When God breathed into Man the breath of life (physical air) Adam became a living soul - he did not receive a spiritual component.

If one dies, and God wishes to resurrect one, all we are is data, ones and noughts. God could resurrect one with no spiritual component. God could resurrect us from His perfect memory of us. I believe the second death is where God simply burns a person up, meaning their physical body, in the lake of fire.

Because I don't see any scriptural proof for a spiritual component in man, I also do not see how that "spiritual software" could become corrupted. Nor do I see why God would frustrate Himself by corrupting their "spiritual software".

 

[jamie]

Nor do I see why God would frustrate Himself by corrupting their "spiritual software".

God didn't corrupt the human spirit, it was made that way for our benefit.

At death the natural body decays and the spirit returns to God.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7 NKJV)​

The human spirit is the interface between the Holy Spirit (Christ's mind) and the human brain which is physical.

 

[jamie]

Because I don't see any scriptural proof for a spiritual component in man...

The human mind consists of a human brain and a human spirit. A whale's mind consists of a whale's brain and a whale spirit.

This is the pattern for all living souls.

 

[jamie]

Another, Other speaks.

Christ is not a Protestant nor does he submit to the pope.

 

[iouae]

God didn't corrupt the human spirit, it was made that way for our benefit.

At death the natural body decays and the spirit returns to God.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7 NKJV)​

The human spirit is the interface between the Holy Spirit (Christ's mind) and the human brain which is physical.

"...and the breath/life will return to God who gave it".

Do you have any proof of this "interface"?

When one has to invent a spiritual component to explain science or theology, it is always a bad sign.

 

[jamie]

The second death was supposedly when God threw one's cassette into the lake of fire, destroying one utterly.

Spirit is not subject to fire, it is not material. The second death is when God removes a person's spirit from their resurrected body.

Death is the separation of body and spirit.

For as the body without the spirit is dead... (James 2:26 NKJV)​

 

[iouae]

The human mind consists of a human brain and a human spirit. A whale's mind consists of a whale's brain and a whale spirit.

This is the pattern for all living souls.

That should give you the clue. If animals have the same spirit (nephesh) then you surely don't insist that they have a spiritual component. There is no difference between animal and human spirits. It simply says that life and breath are in both.

Even when Christ said "to thee I commend my spirit" He simply said he places his LIFE in God the Father's hands.