ECT Once Saved, Always Saved

[patrick jane]

Evil Eye, is that you?

 

[God's Truth]

"Show me one person that was saved and didn't obey God."

Since all have sinned, except Jesus, everyone Jesus came to save has disobeyed God. And if one breaks any part of the law, he has broken the whole law.

James 2:10 says: "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

This includes sins of omission as well as commission; those sins done inadvertantly as well as intentionally; those done that we are aware of and those that we may never realize we have committed. Any offense would break the whole body of law.

A better question would be, who could possibly obey the whole law on such a consistent basis that he would never transgress at some point? To which 1 John 1:8 says: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Our ability to obey God is too weak a leg to stand on, though the desire to obey Him is an important indicator of whether we truly know God or not. To know Him is to love Him. And to love Him is to obey Him, though we will never be able to obey Him perfectly in this life. The purpose of our obedience is not to gain favor or even to demonstrate our devotion. God doesn't need for us to prove anything to him. He knows us intimately. Our obedience is simply a by-product of learning to know Him and to imitate Him. He asks nothing of us that He does not already do. So, obedience just means getting to know Him as a way of life.

He loves us more than we can often receive. But by imitating Him, the barriers that keep us from receiving His love begin to dissolve. This may seem gushy for a theological discussion, but I never ceased to be moved by the kindness and patience of God's love. He is so gentle, and such a strong support to the weak. He knows all things and is all powerful, but there is no one who stoops further in humility for the sake of broken mankind.

You detoured off the path. You are not on the side of truth.

Nowhere anywhere is preaching against obedience to God something the Bible speaks of as having a special anointing from God.

You say some good things, but you also misunderstand about much. Ultimately, you go against obeying.

 

[God's Truth]

Self-salvation on parade

It isn't self salvation when you are doing what someone else says to do. Make some sense.

 

[God's Truth]

Like Andy said above, he has faith in himself.

Faith alone is dead faith. So says the HOLY BIBLE, of which you find a way to go against an apostle to the Lamb.

James 2:14, 17, 19, 20, 22, and 24.

 

[God's Truth]

She is a really good scripture splainer.

No, Ricky, she is not.

 

[jsanford108]

In fairness, why not posit such things from, and based on Scripture Itself?

Your reasoning is flawed.

At least you are to the point. So, I will give you the courtesy of revealing the connecting end game to my hypothetical.

In the hypothetical, the normal person (assuming those who hold the doctrine of eternal assurance are normal) would not just let the murderer go without punishment, the first time. The second time, they would not accept his first apology as a means of forgiving his second set of crime. Why? Because it is not fair, nor just.

This shows the flaw in ascribing to the doctrine of eternal assurance. One positive act does not negate all future negative action. Thus, we could classify the forgiveness of the murderer, with no punishment, unfair. If we say that this is the method of forgiveness and cessation of any and all punishment, with God, we are saying that God is unfair. This is illogical and flawed.

So, calling my reasoning flawed is false, due to two possibilities/conditions: 1.) You had no idea what point I was going to make, and due to suspecting that I was against doctrines of eternal security, proceeded to apply personal bias of conflicting views upon me. 2.) You had an idea of my opposition to eternal security doctrine, and thus decided that any point or claim I make must be flawed, as it does not align with your personal doctrines.

To answer your illogic about forgiveness of a premeditated heinous crime...

Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Exactly what the fool in your hypothetical ended up fully set in, once more.

In short, give them Romans 5: 6-8 and then - lock - them - up - the FIRST time.

I agree. There must be punishment for such actions. This is just, fair, and merciful.

My posit was not illogical, as it was a hypothetical scenario. A hypothetical, rendering a hypothetical situation is not illogical just because it goes against what would normally occur in reality.

Though, as to the example I gave, personally, I'd have been really hard pressed not to have picked up a baseball bat.

REALLY hard pressed.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

And I would have called that "justified."

 

[Bright Raven]

Faith alone is dead faith. So says the HOLY BIBLE, of which you find a way to go against an apostle to the Lamb.

James 2:14, 17, 19, 20, 22, and 24.

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The Jews used to be able to boast in how they made themselves clean.

They did that by doing the ceremonial/purification works of the law.

Since Jesus, his blood that was shed on the cross does the purifying now.

 

[Bright Raven]

The Jews used to be able to boast in how they made themselves clean.

They did that by doing the ceremonial/purification works of the law.

Since Jesus, his blood that was shed on the cross does the purifying now.

So is having faith in Jesus a dead faith?

 

[Myrrhcask]

You detoured off the path. You are not on the side of truth.

Nowhere anywhere is preaching against obedience to God something the Bible speaks of as having a special anointing from God.

You say some good things, but you also misunderstand about much. Ultimately, you go against obeying.

Where do you see me "preaching against obedience to God"?

Can you fully obey God, or do you do the best you know how, like the rest of us? There is a vast difference between to two. To equate doing our best with being able to fully obey is a huge mistake. What about the many errors we make that we are not aware of? Do they not matter when we consider the quality of our obedience? The man who grabbed the Ark of the covenant to keep it from falling died. He didn't mean to sin. He was well intentioned. But it wasn't God's way. We often make such mistakes. If our standing with God is solely dependant upon our obedience, how can we ever be sure of where we stand? Remember Jesus' standards are higher than the Pharisees'. Our standing with God must be based on something firmer than our ability to obey, namely the blood of Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Where do you see me "preaching against obedience to God"?

I said show me one person that was saved and didn’t obey God,

You couldn’t, instead you give a scripture that has nothing to do with what I said.
You said, “Since all have sinned, except Jesus, everyone Jesus came to save has disobeyed God. And if one breaks any part of the law, he has broken the whole law. “

You don’t even understand that scripture, and you use it to go against obeying.

James 2:10 says: "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW.

Please listen carefully.

James does not say 'the moral law', as you claim.

James says the "Royal Law".

This Royal Law that James is speaking of , it DOES NOT put aside mercy to the offender; but, it is imperative to understand what James is saying, instead of speaking falsely about what he is not saying.

James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Love is 'not harming your neighbor' that is how we love our neighbors; we do no harm to them. See Romans 13:10.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder---do not murder/love your neighbor.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment, and you show you love your neighbor.

If you do not harm your neighbor by bearing false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command of the law and you still are loving your neighbor.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Do you understand now? You obeyed all those commands and were doing right by loving your neighbor, you loved your neighbor by not harming him by murdering him; you loved your neighbor by not committing adultery with his wife; you loved your neighbor by not bearing false witness against him, ...BUT THEN, you missed up on one. You did not kill your neighbor, commit adultery with his wife, you did not bear false witness against him...but you stole something from him...YOU HAVE NOW broke one law and stole...AND NOW you are guilty of breaking the whole law of love your neighbor because you hurt him by stealing from him.

 

[God's Truth]

A better question would be, who could possibly obey the whole law on such a consistent basis that he would never transgress at some point? To which 1 John 1:8says: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

That scripture is about how a person, in order to be saved, must admit they are a sinner, and they must repent of their sins.

 

[God's Truth]

Our ability to obey God is too weak a leg to stand on, though the desire to obey Him is an important indicator of whether we truly know God or not. To know Him is to love Him. And to love Him is to obey Him, though we will never be able to obey Him perfectly in this life. The purpose of our obedience is not to gain favor or even to demonstrate our devotion. God doesn't need for us to prove anything to him. He knows us intimately.

You have it wrong here too, for God knows those who obey Him.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God


Did you read that?

Who are those who are known by God are those who love Him by obeying Him.


John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith alone is dead faith. So says the HOLY BIBLE, of which you find a way to go against an apostle to the Lamb.

James 2:14, 17, 19, 20, 22, and 24.

The problem with that statement is that you read it in total ignorance, and I'm getting tired of your doing so. James is talking about what MEN SEE, and their respect of persons. You can tell that from the first verses of this chapter.

James 2:1-2
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;​

James is talking about the faith a hypocrite has. The man who claims he has faith...."a man SAY he hath faith..."

James 2:14-16 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?​

A man may say versus show me and I will show you.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.​

Men cannot see another man's FAITH, so the only thing he has to judge by is what a man does.

Same here....

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.​

Therefore, that false profession of faith is alone. That's why Paul says a man can glory in his works, but not before God. Man can glory in his works ONLY to other men.

Romans 4:4-5 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

 

[glorydaz]

You have it wrong here too, for God knows those who obey Him.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God


Did you read that?

Who are those who are known by God are those who love Him by obeying Him.

Yeah, we can all read it, and the words in YELLOW are yours. Stop adding to Scripture.

 

[glorydaz]

I said show me one person that was saved and didn’t obey God,

Spoiler

You couldn’t, instead you give a scripture that has nothing to do with what I said.
You said, “Since all have sinned, except Jesus, everyone Jesus came to save has disobeyed God. And if one breaks any part of the law, he has broken the whole law. “

You don’t even understand that scripture, and you use it to go against obeying.



James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW.

Please listen carefully.

James does not say 'the moral law', as you claim.

James says the "Royal Law".

This Royal Law that James is speaking of , it DOES NOT put aside mercy to the offender; but, it is imperative to understand what James is saying, instead of speaking falsely about what he is not saying.

James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Love is 'not harming your neighbor' that is how we love our neighbors; we do no harm to them. See Romans 13:10.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder---do not murder/love your neighbor.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment, and you show you love your neighbor.

If you do not harm your neighbor by bearing false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command of the law and you still are loving your neighbor.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Do you understand now? You obeyed all those commands and were doing right by loving your neighbor, you loved your neighbor by not harming him by murdering him; you loved your neighbor by not committing adultery with his wife; you loved your neighbor by not bearing false witness against him, ...BUT THEN, you missed up on one. You did not kill your neighbor, commit adultery with his wife, you did not bear false witness against him...but you stole something from him...YOU HAVE NOW broke one law and stole...AND NOW you are guilty of breaking the whole law of love your neighbor because you hurt him by stealing from him.

Does anyone have a roll of duct tape?

 

[God's Truth]

Where do you see me "preaching against obedience to God"?

Can you fully obey God, or do you do the best you know how, like the rest of us? There is a vast difference between to two. To equate doing our best with being able to fully obey is a huge mistake. What about the many errors we make that we are not aware of? Do they not matter when we consider the quality of our obedience? The man who grabbed the Ark of the covenant to keep it from falling died. He didn't mean to sin. He was well intentioned. But it wasn't God's way. We often make such mistakes. If our standing with God is solely dependant upon our obedience, how can we ever be sure of where we stand? Remember Jesus' standards are higher than the Pharisees'. Our standing with God must be based on something firmer than our ability to obey, namely the blood of Jesus.

What happened to Aaron's two son's is also an example to those who want to add to God's Word.

You say yourself right here that Jesus' standards are higher than that of the Pharisees, but what you don't seem to grasp is that THAT is the standard Jesus has for US!

The Pharisees say do not kill.

Jesus says that we are not to only not kill, but we are not to even get angry.

Now stop trying to get out of obeying and preach obedience to Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah, we can all read it, and the words in YELLOW are yours. Stop adding to Scripture.

Notice that you took out of my post the scripture that say love is OBEYING His commands.

 

[God's Truth]

Glorydazed, what is love?


2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

 

[God's Truth]

All take note of Glorydazed talking out of my post the scripture that say THIS IS LOVE: Obey Jesus' commands.