On the omniscience of God

[JudgeRightly]

God lost track of Adam & Eve , no God didn't
where are you is a rhetorical question
Like when God asked Cain where is Able a rhetorical question
open theist response , not all God's question are rhetorical. #6
duh
but that one is
(Jeremiah 23:24) Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? says the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? said the LORD.

not can , did
Genesis 3:9 can function as a summons requiring Adam to appear and confess.

establishing precedent:

(Psalms 147:4-5)
[4] He tells the number of the stars; he calls them all by their names.

[5] Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.


(Proverbs 15:3) The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.


(Proverbs 15:11) Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?


(Proverbs 5:21) For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and He watches all his paths.


(Romans 2:16) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


(Jeremiah 16:17) For my eyes are on all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from my eyes.

(Jeremiah 23:24) Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? says the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? said the LORD.

(Psalms 90:8) You have set our iniquities before you, our secret sins in the light of your countenance.

(Matthew 12:36) But I say to you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.




really .
how much ?
just a little ?
what limits it ?
is it fallible ?
I'm guessing not actual foreknowledge.
'they did not repent" that's true or it isn't
Why would God say it if it wasn't true ?

little steps , you can't acknowledge the small things such as with Adam & Eve "where are you " being a rhetorical question
and God knowing Sodom was evil before the talk with Abraham.


a known date and hour of the promised return , precedent for infallible foreknowledge

(Matthew 24:36) But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only

who knows it ? God
what does God know the Day and the Hour


down to the Hour
precedent for infallible foreknowledge : the angels have specific day foreknown to God "for the hour and day and month and year"

(Matthew 24:36) But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only

(Revelation of John 9:15) And the four angels were loosed, that had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, that they should kill the third part of men



(Revelation of John 19:11-16) [11] And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [12] And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself. [13] And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [14] And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure. [15] And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty. [16] And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


can you admit this is all infallibly foreknown or is God guessing about his second coming ?


precedent for infallible foreknowledge: God is not responsible for the sins , so not going to make them sin ,
God is going to judge the sins , and God has said They did not repent 4 itmes
did not repent
Revelation 9:20
Revelation 9:22
Revelation 16:9
Revelation 16:11
this is either precedent for infallible foreknowledge or as you like to say God plans to bring this about , the sins & the "did not repent"
or worse none of revelation is true

so , precedent for infallible foreknowledge just not exhaustive .


revelation is about Jesus second coming not something mankind can stop
so Jeremiah 18 is not relevant to something they could not repent their way out of , ( that is only to say they could repent but Jesus would still comeback )

(Revelation of John 7:14) And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

did not repent
Revelation 9:20
Revelation 9:22
Revelation 16:9
Revelation 16:11

(Revelation of John 9:20-21) [20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

no
(Psalms 41:9) Yes, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.

(John 13:18) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me.

precedent for infallible foreknowledge

open theism has a lot of special pleading and selective literalism that has been established


theology by logic puzzle, eisegesis
with special pleading and selective literalism for them pesky verses that don't fit the puzzle.

now we get to exhaustive infallible foreknowledge
do you understand what it takes to foreknow of someones existence ?
how many things had to happen for us to be here now ?

we know God has infallible foreknowledge
in order for God to foreknow us and all of Revelation and Daniel
that takes exhaustive infallible foreknowledge



[17] How precious also are your thoughts to me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
[18] If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with you.

that's one persons existence ,not even forethought of he got here , now extrapolate that out to billions of people and all their history
and things that happened in the world and the relationships to foreknow someone

Post in thread 'On the omniscience of God' https://theologyonline.com/threads/on-the-omniscience-of-god.55271/post-1931480

 

[Right Divider]

Present omniscience is not future exhaustive foreknowledge. Scripture repeatedly describes God as knowing everything occurring in the present and everything He plans to execute Himself. Citing God's knowledge of present hearts, His sovereign appointments, or His ability to predict hardened behavior does not logically prove that every future creaturely choice exists as a settled fact before it happens.

1. Present Knowledge Does Not Equal an Exhaustive Future Timeline​

Your primary list of verses proves present omniscience, not exhaustive foreknowledge of unsettled choices.

• Jeremiah 23:24 states that God fills heaven and earth and sees people hiding now.
• Proverbs 15:3, Proverbs 15:11, and Proverbs 5:21 declare that God sees the ways, paths, and hearts of men right now.
• Psalm 147:4 to 5 describes God counting the stars and having infinite understanding.
• Romans 2:16, Jeremiah 16:17, Psalm 90:8, and Matthew 12:36 confirm that God knows every secret deed, path, and idle word on the day of judgment.

Open theists affirm all of these passages without reservation. Omniscience means knowing all reality: everything that exists, everything that has happened, everything currently happening, and every possibility. The future of free creaturely choices does not yet exist as an actual reality. Conflating God's exhaustive knowledge of the present with an exhaustive knowledge of an uncreated future is an error in logic.
Regarding Genesis 3:9, Open theism does not claim God was physically searching behind bushes for Adam. The issue is how Scripture depicts genuine dialogue and conditional interactions. In Genesis 22:12, God says, "now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son." In Jeremiah 19:5, God speaks of atrocities "which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind." You must explain why your reading treats God's present surveillance as literal while treating His stated discoveries and unexpected reactions as mere figure of speech.

2. Sovereign Determination Is Not Passive Foreknowledge​

You cite Matthew 24:36, Revelation 9:15, and Revelation 19:11 to 16 to claim that an appointed date proves exhaustive foreknowledge of every human choice.
When a sovereign authority sets an appointment, that authority knows the date because the authority intends to enforce it. If an architect sets the exact hour to demolish a building, the architect knows the time because he holds the power to swing the wrecking ball. Matthew 24:36 says the Father alone knows the day and hour. Acts 1:7 confirms this exact principle: "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."
Revelation 19 describes Christ returning to execute judgment with power. That is divine action. God executing His own decreed will at an hour He appointed requires omnipotence and decisive purpose. It does not require that every human choice leading up to that hour was frozen in eternity past.

3. Prophecy of Corporate Hardening in Revelation​

You argue that Revelation stating "yet repented not" (Revelation 9:20 to 21, Revelation 16:9 to 11) proves God possesses exhaustive foreknowledge of sins without causing them.
Scripture treats corporate groups under final judgment as hardened entities. When Pharaoh hardened his heart, God confirmed that condition to display His glory. By the period described in Revelation 9 and 16, humanity has openly allied with the beast and received his mark. God accurately evaluates their entrenched rebellion.
Predicting that a group so committed to idolatry will refuse to repent does not require an eternal script of every choice. A master physician can tell you with certainty that an advanced, untreated cancer patient will die without having to script every heartbeat. Furthermore, apocalyptic prophecy uses visionary symbols to declare the certain victory of God over stubborn human evil. It does not present an abstract treatise on metaphysical determinism.

4. Judas and Prophetic Fulfillment​

You appeal to Psalm 41:9 and John 13:18 as proof of exhaustive foreknowledge regarding Judas.
Psalm 41:9 was David writing about his own immediate circumstance and his betrayal by Ahithophel. Jesus cites David's experience as an applied pattern to His own situation. Even if treated as direct prediction, God does not need an eternal past recording to fulfill His plan. God knew the corrupt nature of the religious leaders, the greed of Judas, and the hostile environment in Jerusalem.
By the Last Supper, Judas had already taken the thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 26:14 to 16). Jesus knew the plot because Judas had already set it into motion. Identifying a trajectory already chosen and ensuring the cross happens does not mean every choice Judas ever made was fixed from before creation.

5. The Genetic Extrapolation Fallacy​

Your final argument claims that to know someone's existence (Romans 8:29, Psalm 139:17 to 18), God must possess exhaustive foreknowledge of billions of prior human choices, mating pairs, and historical occurrences.
This argument creates a false dilemma. It assumes God is either a passive spectator watching a movie of history or completely helpless.
Open theism holds that God is the supreme Master of history. Consider a grandmaster playing chess against a novice. The grandmaster does not need to know the novice's exact moves fifty turns in advance to guarantee a win. No matter what move the novice makes, the grandmaster responds with superior wisdom, steers the board, and delivers checkmate.
God does not need history to be frozen in concrete to ensure individuals are born or to bring about His kingdom. God intervenes, influences, opens wombs, guides circumstances, and executes His will dynamically in real time.
Romans 8:29 states, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate." The Greek word proginosko in this context carries the relational sense of setting affection upon a people beforehand, just as Amos 3:2 says, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth." The text does not say God exhaustively foreknew every neutral or evil free choice of every human ancestor.
Your conclusion relies on an unproven premise: that God can only guarantee an outcome if every variable was unalterably fixed before time began. That diminishes God's active, living sovereignty and replaces His real-time mastery with a passive tape recorder.

Verification Checklist for This Debate​

1. Check whether each proof text you bring refers to God's knowledge of existing facts (present reality) or to unsettled future human choices.
2. Distinguish between verses where God declares what He will actively do versus verses claiming God passively sees what creatures will choose.
3. Review whether biblical prophecy speaks conditionally (as in Jeremiah 18:7 to 10 and Jonah 3:10) rather than as fatalistic certainty.