On Responsibility

[Quincy]

:doh: go back and read it again, particularly this part: "I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape."




if i make a habit of drinking to excess and driving like a maniac and crash my truck and end up in a hospital, you're going to be sympathetic to me when i whine about how unfair it is that i have two broken legs? :freak:

i'll bet not

i'll bet you're going to be more apt to say "Serves you right, moron - how many times have we told you not to drive drunk?"


and you'd be right :thumb:

I would be sympathetic because there would be reasons a person would make such a bad choice. I'd never shame or accuse anyone for making a mistake. That's what people who have feel empathy do, as far as I can tell. Making a bad choice or being in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't equal an action on par with a crime. A mistake is not always a crime.

Despite of what might have happened to you in the past, Koban, not every women is making a deviant choice when something happens to them that involves pre or extra marital encounters. Each person is responsible for their own actions and each action warrants its own degree of culpability. An attack on someone is a crime and deserves prosecution. A bad judgement call isn't and only warrants some mentoring or guidance at most. Punishing the person attacked only maginalizes the attacker and what he/she did and that's the point of my reply to you.

The logic you're using here nullifies every crime ever committed.

 

[ok doser]

Punishing the person attacked only maginalizes the attacker and what he/she did and that's the point of my reply to you.

The logic you're using here nullifies every crime ever committed.

you're not paying attention :idunno:

and i'm tired of saying "i didn't say that" or "that's a misrepresentation of my position"



go back and read what i posted again

 

[ok doser]

Scenario #7:

Nancy is a US Navy Seaman, E2 rating. Her ship puts into port in West Crapistan in the Middle East. Before going on shore leave, Nancy and the other sailors are given directives by their CO - how to behave, what to do, what not to do, what areas of the city are safe, what areas of the city are off limits. Nancy finds himself in an area of the city that is off limits, is identified as US military personnel by radical muslim extremists and is chased and raped. Nancy is rescued by the shore patrol and brought back to the ship where she is given the best possible medical care. And thrown in the brig. Nancy's Captain, or the State Department, lean on the local authorities to catch and punish, swiftly and severely, those locals involved in the rape. Nancy goes to the Mast and is busted down to E1 and given KP for six months. Nancy's punishment is a result of her actions being a direct cause of the predicament she found herself in. It takes nothing away from the culpability of those who raped Nancy - they receive their two years being tortured in the West Crapistan penal system. But the Navy recognizes that Nancy's choices - Nancy's actions - Nancy's behavior - was directly responsible for the situation that arose

 

[aCultureWarrior]

bybee - i'm currently a student on a liberal campus that's devoting a huge amount of effort to discussions of rape and rape culture.

While it's been shown that man (because of free will) must be held 100% accountable for his actions no matter what animate or inanimate objects might entice him to do wrong, moral relativists like Quincy and society in general shouldn't be surprised when these immoral actions take place because of our "If it feels good do it"-"Do your own thing" mentality.

 

[bybee]

While it's been shown that man (because of free will) must be held 100% accountable for his actions no matter what animate or inanimate objects might entice him to do wrong, moral relativists like Quincy and society in general shouldn't be surprised when these immoral actions take place because of our "If it feels good do it"-"Do your own thing" mentality.

I think you are misplacing your negative. It is Sod who is blaming the victim here.

 

[ok doser]

I think you are misplacing your negative. It is Sod who is blaming the victim here.

blaming the victim for trying to avoid taking responsibility for making bad choices, yes :thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

:doh: go back and read it again, particularly this part: "I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape."




if i make a habit of drinking to excess and driving like a maniac and crash my truck and end up in a hospital, you're going to be sympathetic to me when i whine about how unfair it is that i have two broken legs? :freak:

i'll bet not

i'll bet you're going to be more apt to say "Serves you right, moron - how many times have we told you not to drive drunk?"


and you'd be right :thumb:

Yep, good old common sense.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I think you are misplacing your negative. It is Sod who is blaming the victim here.

Hes not blaming the victim for the crime, hes blaming them for their lack of responsibility that contributed to them becoming the victim of a crime.

That keeps being missed. One does not remove the other.

Some people here are pretending that some people are saying that the careless actions takes away the guilt of the criminal, when thats not being said at ALL.

Can careless and irresponsible actions and decisions cause a person to become a crime victim? Of course they can.

 

[bybee]

Hes not blaming the victim for the crime, hes blaming them for their lack of responsibility that contributed to them becoming the victim of a crime.

That keeps being missed.

I am not missing that at all. They are two separate things.
A person who the victim of a crime because of carelessness or stupidity may learn the error of his/her way and avoid such foolishness in future.
The rapist is a criminal who likely will repeat his crime especially if he can find a way to dilute the blame by citing something that the victim has done.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I am not missing that at all. They are two separate things.
A person who the victim of a crime because of carelessness or stupidity may learn the error of his/her way and avoid such foolishness in future.
The rapist is a criminal who likely will repeat his crime especially if he can find a way to dilute the blame by citing something that the victim has done.

yes, and? Thats the point. One doesnt lesson the other, they are 2 seperate things.

Bottom line if not for the foolish actions on some peoples part, they would never have become a crime victim. That doesnt remove that the criminal is guilty of what they did.

 

[glorydaz]

Hes not blaming the victim for the crime, hes blaming them for their lack of responsibility that contributed to them becoming the victim of a crime.

That keeps being missed.

Yep, and I have to wonder if it isn't being intentionally missed because it's simply not politically correct. Are we not all responsible for our own actions? I believe that is a Biblical truth that is being ignored....swept under the rug like a dirty secret. Why is it? :think:


ps....I'm glad you're back, Angel.

 

[glorydaz]

I am not missing that at all. They are two separate things.
A person who the victim of a crime because of carelessness or stupidity may learn the error of his/her way and avoid such foolishness in future.
The rapist is a criminal who likely will repeat his crime especially if he can find a way to dilute the blame by citing something that the victim has done.

Yeah, well "the devil made me do it" should never work. Every criminal tries to shift the blame. The only one's believing that story are ignorant. It still doesn't mean there is never any fault on the woman's side.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yep, and I have to wonder if it isn't being intentionally missed because it's simply not politically correct. Are we not all responsible for our own actions? I believe that is a Biblical truth that is being ignored....swept under the rug like a dirty secret. Why is it? :think:


ps....I'm glad you're back, Angel.

ty sister, been a busy weekend

 

[ok doser]

Scenario #8:

Josephine is planning to go down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shout racial slurs at the protesters. Josephine tells her plans to her friend Francine. Francine says "Don't do it - they'll beat you up and rape you." Josephine says "You're not the boss of me - I'll do what I want!" Josephine goes down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shouts racial slurs at the protesters. Josephine gets beaten and raped. Those who beat and rape Josephine are arrested and charged. Francine comes to visit Josephine in the hospital. Josephine whines about how unfair it was that she got beaten and raped. Francine says "What are you talking about? You deserved to get beaten and raped. I told you not to go down there. You chose to get beaten and raped. Next time don't be such a moron."

modified from #6 because "rape isn't the same as assault"

 

[Angel4Truth]

Scenario #8:

Josephine is planning to go down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shout racial slurs at the protesters. Josephine tells her plans to her friend Francine. Francine says "Don't do it - they'll beat you up and rape you." Josephine says "You're not the boss of me - I'll do what I want!" Josephine goes down to the Ferguson protests dressed in klan robes and a hood, carrying a sign that says "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot!" and shouts racial slurs at the protesters. Josephine gets beaten and raped. Those who beat and rape Josephine are arrested and charged. Francine comes to visit Josephine in the hospital. Josephine whines about how unfair it was that she got beaten and raped. Francine says "What are you talking about? You deserved to get beaten and raped. I told you not to go down there. You chose to get beaten and raped. Next time don't be such a moron."

modified from #6 because "rape isn't the same as assault"

Disagree with the term "deserved" no matter what she did, she did not "deserve" to get beaten and raped.

Agree with the rest that she deliberately chose to go there and knew there could be a problem and she did it anyway.

She is guilty of contributing to becoming a crime victim because of her own foolish actions - which take nothing away from the guilt of the criminals for being criminals.

 

[Rusha]

The rapist is a criminal who likely will repeat his crime especially if he can find a way to dilute the blame by citing something that the victim has done.

Of course ... which is where the victim blaming comes in. It would be understandable if a victim of rape refused to come forward and testify to avoid being verbally raped on the witness stand by the defense.

All that means is that a rapist is free to rape again, but hey ... no harm no foul.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Of course ... which is where the victim blaming comes in. It would be understandable if a victim of rape refused to come forward and testify to avoid being verbally raped on the witness stand by the defense.

All that means is that a rapist is free to rape again, but hey ... no harm no foul.

And you ignore whats being said, no one said that what she did lessens or excuses what a rapist did in any way.

They are 2 different things.

 

[ok doser]

... a rapist is free to rape again, but hey ... no harm no foul.

if that's what you believe, then you're a disgusting pig :idunno:

 

[bybee]

if that's what you believe, then you're a disgusting pig :idunno:

It is this kind of misleading twist on an innocent comment to deliberately attempt to make another poster look bad that causes me to distrust you and consider you a malicious force on this board.

 

[ok doser]

It is this kind of misleading twist on an innocent comment to deliberately attempt to make another poster look bad that causes me to distrust you and consider you a malicious force on this board.

gee - now all of a sudden you can understand what I post? :chuckle:

nobody's fooled here by you bybee