On Responsibility

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
a scenario:
A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

The pedophile molests the children.

I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?




shoot - can't set it up as a poll

weigh in!
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
a scenario:
A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

The pedophile molests the children.

I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?




shoot - can't set it up as a poll

weigh in!

Yes he does. And it has to be the crime of stupidity, because I'd like to believe no father would be that stupid or naïve.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
a second scenario:


At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

People come in and steal the cash.

I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?

 

glorydaz

Well-known member
a second scenario:


At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

People come in and steal the cash.

I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?


:rotfl:
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
a third scenario:


Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
Spoiler
HOT-GIRLS-SMOKING-BONGS-10.jpg


Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
Spoiler
girl-takes-ecstasy-pill-i-007.jpg


Mary drinks a lot!
Spoiler
alcohol-drunk-girl-glasses-make-up-party-favim_com-77248_large.jpg


Mary dances in her underwear!
Spoiler
drunk-girls-dancing-wild-party-lap-dance-hotties-young-lovers.jpg


Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

Spoiler
ovfMbEb0.jpeg


Mary wakes up the next morning.

Spoiler
cure_hangover_alcohol.jpg


Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?






 
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Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Responsibility implies the existence of an authority that can hold one into account.

Morally, all are responsible to God for all that they do, think, or say. The accountability to God is not requiring one possesses any ability to obey, too. Accountability is the key to responsibility. No one is responsible if there is no higher authority that can hold them into account.

Abilities, per se, are real or perceived mitigating issues that may or may not be taken into account by the one holding another responsible as to guilt or innocence. In other words, one's abilities do not escape the fact that one can be held accountable.

As to the civil magistrate's rule, one given the power of the sword, over society, accountability arises from matters of laws established, and violations of the same, making one who traverses these laws negatively, accountable before the bar of justice established by the civil magistrate.

In all circumstances as the examples in this thread dealing with the crimes upon another and that victim's culpability, responsibility of all parties, criminal and victim alike, is always attached from God's perspective, but not necessarily always to the rules of the civil magistrate.

Where local rules exist, responsibility of a victim of a crime is not implied until it can be shown otherwise. Instead the mens rea (awareness of the fact that the conduct is criminal) of the accused and the actus reus (the act itself) are all that is required.

Even in cases where there is no mens rea required (no criminal intent), the civil magistrate has established laws of Strict Liability, where all that is required under such statutes is that the act itself is voluntary, since involuntary acts are not criminal.

The criminal in these cases cannot hope to escape being held guilty (responsible) due to the behavior of another. It is only when guilt is assigned, that the criminal can raise possible mitigating circumstances, e.g., the recklessness of another's behavior, in hopes of reducing the sentence to come.

AMR
 

Foxfire

Well-known member
Yes he does. And it has to be the crime of stupidity, because I'd like to believe no father would be that stupid or naïve.

To knowingly place any child in danger is a CRIME in any state. The father AND the Pedo are both guilty of statutory criminal behavior.

The father is NOT the victim as per the rapist/raped scenario being furthered.

Seriously flawed metaphor.

The CHILD/VICTIM remains innocent. :doh:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
To knowingly place any child in danger is a CRIME in any state. The father AND the Pedo are both guilty of statutory criminal behavior.

The father is NOT the victim as per the rapist/raped scenario being furthered.

Seriously flawed metaphor.

The CHILD/VICTIM remains innocent. :doh:

I have always said children are victims. Therefore, your straw man is destined for the compost pile. ;)
 

Nick M

Born that men no longer die
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Therefore, your straw man is destined for the compost pile. ;)

Paul said the same thing only not as sugar coated regarding good works when people stand before God in judgment.

Sorry, you know I can't help myself.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
a third scenario:


Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
Spoiler
HOT-GIRLS-SMOKING-BONGS-10.jpg


Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
Spoiler
girl-takes-ecstasy-pill-i-007.jpg


Mary drinks a lot!
Spoiler
alcohol-drunk-girl-glasses-make-up-party-favim_com-77248_large.jpg


Mary dances in her underwear!
Spoiler
drunk-girls-dancing-wild-party-lap-dance-hotties-young-lovers.jpg


Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

Spoiler
ovfMbEb0.jpeg


Mary wakes up the next morning.

Spoiler
cure_hangover_alcohol.jpg


Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?







Wait, if mary doesn't remember a lot of the night and was dancing around in her undies while stoned out of her mind, how does mary determine shes been raped?
 

musterion

Well-known member
So back up just a second. Are women responsible for being raped? That other thread got so cluttered I never could make heads or tails
 

aCultureWarrior

BANNED
Banned
LIFETIME MEMBER
a scenario:
A father leaves his children in the care of a known pedophile.

The pedophile molests the children.

I believe that everybody will agree that the pedophile is responsible for the crime of molestation.

Does the father bear any responsibility for putting the children at risk?


Terrible analogy, as the father isn't the victim here, the children are (and yes, the father is responsible for the molestation as well).




a second scenario:


At a bank, the manager and tellers spend the day drinking and waving big fistfuls of cash at the poor people walking by.

They drink themselves into unconsciousness with the bank doors wide open and bundles of cash lying about.

People come in and steal the cash.

I believe that everybody will agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft.

Do the bank manager and tellers bear any responsibility for their actions?


"Thou Shalt Not Steal" is a moral absolute. Thou shalt not be stupid isn't. If you're giving some of the blame to the victim, then you're downplaying God's moral absolute on stealing.

a third scenario:


Mary, a college sophomore, decides to smoke some dope in her dorm room
Spoiler
HOT-GIRLS-SMOKING-BONGS-10.jpg


Mary then goes out alone to a club, starts drinking and meets up with some nice fellows who offer her some drugs
Spoiler
girl-takes-ecstasy-pill-i-007.jpg


Mary drinks a lot!
Spoiler
alcohol-drunk-girl-glasses-make-up-party-favim_com-77248_large.jpg


Mary dances in her underwear!
Spoiler
drunk-girls-dancing-wild-party-lap-dance-hotties-young-lovers.jpg


Mary doesn't remember a lot of the night.

Spoiler
ovfMbEb0.jpeg


Mary wakes up the next morning.

Spoiler
cure_hangover_alcohol.jpg


Mary realizes that her purse and all her money are missing and that she's been raped.

I think we can all agree that the thieves are guilty of the crime of theft. I think we can all agree that the rapists are guilty of the crime of rape.


Does Mary bear any responsibility for the actions that she chose to take that put her at risk?



"Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery" (i.e. out of wedlock sex) is a moral absolute. Again, if you're giving some of the blame to the victim because she didn't use good judgment, then you're downplaying God's moral absolute on out of wedlock sex.
 

aCultureWarrior

BANNED
Banned
LIFETIME MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Paul said the same thing only not as sugar coated regarding good works when people stand before God in judgment.

Sorry, you know I can't help myself.

Some things just need sayin'.

Maybe you can tell us how the above is relevant to this thread?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Paul said the same thing only not as sugar coated regarding good works when people stand before God in judgment.

Sorry, you know I can't help myself.



Maybe you can tell us how the above is relevant to this thread?

It was relevant to my comment. Are you saying my comment was not relevant to this thread? I guess you'd be right about that.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
A fourth scenario:


Joe gets off work every day at five and stops at the local bar, where he stays for two hours and downs ten beers.

He then goes out to his truck where he keeps a quart of scotch and downs half the bottle.

Joe then drives thirty miles to his home, going 120 mph on the highway.

One day Joe crashes his truck and gets a DWI.

Is Joe responsible for the situation he finds himself in?

Would anybody object to saying of Joe "He deserved it" or "He had it coming" or "It was inevitable" or "It's his own fault"?

 
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