NT use of OT scripture

[glorydaz]

That's not two kingdoms, it's one ruled by one.
He's not divided with His butt ruling in heaven and His feet ruling on earth, His whole body rules them corporately because He is not divided and neither is His kingdom.



Which means a kingdom cannot be divided and stand.

So, if God has a kingdom on Mars, and a kingdom on earth, you'd still call them the same kingdom?
What if Mars was populated by spiritual beings and earth was populated by physical beings?

Don't you think it's possible for the Son of Man to sit on David's throne, while the Son of God sits on His Throne in heavenly places populated by spiritual beings? You must think that Jesus wasn't holding the worlds together while He walked among us.

In other words, you're going to insist God is where His "butt" is, and He can't be ruling on the earth while His butt sits on David's throne?

 

[Tambora]

temple/body/Christ


From OT:

Isaiah 28 ESV​

(16) therefore thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: Whoever believes will not be in haste.​

Used in NT:

Acts 4 ESV​

(11) This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.​

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John 2 ESV​

(19) Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.​

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1 Peter 2 ESV​

(4) As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious,​

(5) you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.​

(6) For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”​

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Ephesians 2 ESV​

(19) So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,​

(20) built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,​

(21) in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.​

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2 Corinthians 5 ESV​

(1) For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.​

 

[fzappa13]

And His TWO kingdoms.....the one on earth and the one in heaven.

John 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Right Divider]

John 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

In that verse, Jesus is talking about the earthly kingdom of Israel.

 

[fzappa13]

In that verse, Jesus is talking about the earthly kingdom of Israel.

Okay, let me try this again.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it in heaven." You don't pray for what you already have. His kingdom is coming ... soon.

Patience.

 

[Hoping]

Okay, let me try this again.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it in heaven." You don't pray for what you already have. His kingdom is coming ... soon.

Patience.

The kingdom could be in your heart, if Jesus was correct in Luke 17:20-21..."And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[Right Divider]

Okay, let me try this again.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it in heaven." You don't pray for what you already have. His kingdom is coming ... soon.

Patience.

I've never claimed that the kingdom in John 18 was here presently.

 

[fzappa13]

The kingdom could be in your heart, if Jesus was correct in Luke 17:20-21..."And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

This is a part of the puzzle. If we truly want to understand the subject of the kingdom of God I think it wise to gather as much scripture as we can identify that pertains to it and let them speak as a whole.

 

[Hoping]

This is a part of the puzzle. If we truly want to understand the subject of the kingdom of God I think it wise to gather as much scripture as we can identify that pertains to it and let them speak as a whole.

I don't see it as a puzzle, as much as I see it as differing perspectives of the kingdom.
As long as I am on earth, the kingdom of God within me is also on earth.

 

[Right Divider]

This is a part of the puzzle. If we truly want to understand the subject of the kingdom of God I think it wise to gather as much scripture as we can identify that pertains to it and let them speak as a whole.

If you study carefully, you will find that there are multiple "kingdoms of God" mentioned in scripture.

One is the kingdom of Israel... another is the entire universe. So it's not just a single thing, though many people try to force them to be the same. Just like they try to force "only one gospel" on the scripture.

 

[Tambora]

The kingdom of Israel was supposed to be light to the whole world.
The kingdom of Israel failed and was exiled and scattered throughout the world.

It was only Christ that did not fail.
Christ was the light to all nations, Jews and Gentiles alike.
All are welcomed in His kingdom.

The new covenant that promised to unite the divided and exiled kingdom of Israel again included Gentiles coming with them.

 

[Right Divider]

The kingdom of Israel was supposed to be light to the whole world.
The kingdom of Israel failed and was exiled and scattered throughout the world.

It was only Christ that did not fail.
Christ was the light to all nations, Jews and Gentiles alike.
All are welcomed in His kingdom.

The new covenant that promised to unite the divided and exiled kingdom of Israel again included Gentiles coming with them.

The kingdom of Israel is .... Israel. Believing gentiles are not part of the kingdom of Israel. The gentiles have their own nations.

If you look at the the "end of the story"... (i.e., after Christ returns a establishes His kingdom as well as removing all unbelievers from the earth, you will see that the nations still exist. Those the nations that the Jews (i.e., Israel) will lead.

Rev 21:23-27 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. (21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (21:27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Tambora]

The kingdom of Israel is .... Israel. Believing gentiles are not part of the kingdom of Israel. The gentiles have their own nations.

If you look at the the "end of the story"... (i.e., after Christ returns a establishes His kingdom as well as removing all unbelievers from the earth, you will see that the nations still exist. Those the nations that the Jews (i.e., Israel) will lead.

Rev 21:23-27 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof. (21:24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (21:25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (21:26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (21:27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Yep, all nations will still exist and all are welcome.

Do you speculate that all those Jews that heard the news at Pentecost went back to their homelands and only told Jews about that good news?
I speculate that churches that included Jews and Gentiles were established in those regions even before Paul went there.

 

[Right Divider]

Yep, all nations will still exist and all are welcome.

Yes... welcome to what?

Do you speculate that all those Jews that heard the news at Pentecost went back to their homelands and only told Jews about that good news?

That depends was what "good news" you're talking about.
The gospel of the kingdom is focused on Israel.

Those that were scattered in Acts 8:1 preached to Jews only.

Acts 11:19 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

I speculate that churches that included Jews and Gentiles were established in those regions even before Paul went there.

Those "gentiles" would be called proselytes.
They are not the same as believing gentiles in their own nations.

 

[Tambora]

Yes... welcome to what?

That depends was what "good news" you're talking about.
The gospel of the kingdom is focused on Israel.

Those that were scattered in Acts 8:1 preached to Jews only.

Acts 11:19 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Those "gentiles" would be called proselytes.
They are not the same as believing gentiles in their own nations.

The kingdom they all lived in was Rome, Israel didn't have a kingdom of their own.
So how were those churches that included both Jews and Gentiles in the Roman kingdom established?
Were they not churches that had faith Christ was the Savior of mankind or were they told that Christ was only the Savior of a future united again Israel?

 

[Right Divider]

The kingdom they all lived in was Rome, Israel didn't have a kingdom of their own.

That is not relevant to the fact that God created the nations and separated Israel from the nations. Are you not aware that the gospel of the kingdom preached during Christ's earthly ministry was about the nation of Israel?

So how were those churches that included both Jews and Gentiles in the Roman kingdom established?

Again, this is not relevant to God's plans for the nation of Israel and the gentiles nations.

Were they not churches that had faith Christ was the Savior of mankind or were they told that Christ was only the Savior of a future united again Israel?

Christ has different relationships with different people at different times. During Christ's earthly ministry He said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That's pretty easy to understand. Paul confirms this by says that Christ was a minister of the circumcision (Rom 15:8).

When Christ called Paul, Christ explained to Paul a NEW relationship that Christ was to have with all people without distinction... the NEW creature... the body of Christ.

 

[Tambora]

That is not relevant to the fact that God created the nations and separated Israel from the nations. Are you not aware that the gospel of the kingdom preached during Christ's earthly ministry was about the nation of Israel?

Again, this is not relevant to God's plans for the nation of Israel and the gentiles nations.

Christ has different relationships with different people at different times. During Christ's earthly ministry He said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That's pretty easy to understand. Paul confirms this by says that Christ was a minister of the circumcision (Rom 15:8).

When Christ called Paul, Christ explained to Paul a NEW relationship that Christ was to have with all people without distinction... the NEW creature... the body of Christ.

It's all relevant.

Christ told the unbelieving Pharisees that is was a Gentile man and woman, Naaman & Sarepta, (and none of Israel) that were blessed because of their faith.
God desires for all to come to Him.
And He promised that Abraham would be the father of many nations, not just one.
Christ is the light for the whole world.
Christ is not divided, He is the house/tabernacle/body of all believers and a house divided cannot stand.
All believers are one with Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

It's all relevant.

Christ told the unbelieving Pharisees that is was a Gentile man and woman, Naaman & Sarepta, (and none of Israel) that were blessed because of their faith.
God desires for all to come to Him.
And He promised that Abraham would be the father of many nations, not just one.
Christ is the light for the whole world.
Christ is not divided, He is the house/tabernacle/body of all believers and a house divided cannot stand.
All believers are one with Christ.

• I've never said that gentiles cannot be blessed.
• I've never said that God only wants some to come to Him.
• God told Abraham that he would be BOTH the father of many nations AND the father of A great nation. Can you guess who the "great nation" is?
• I've never said that Christ is NOT the light for the whole world.
• I've never said that Christ is divided, but God most definitely separated Israel from the rest of the world.
• I've never said that all believers are not one in Christ.

You simply insist on moving the goal posts and equivocating.

 

[Tambora]

• I've never said that gentiles cannot be blessed.
• I've never said that God only wants some to come to Him.
• I've never said that Christ is NOT the light for the whole world.
• I've never said that Christ is divided, but God most definitely separated Israel from the rest of the world.
• I've never said that all believers are not one in Christ.

And I never said you did say those things.

 

[Right Divider]

And I never said you did say those things.

Then what was your point in randomly bringing those things up in a reply to me?