Can you understand a Jew's beliefs?
Now the works of the flesh are evident...
- Thread starter WonderfulLordJesus
- Start date
Can you understand a Jew's beliefs?
Jeremiah 29:8 "For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
Jeremiah 29:9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD."
II Peter 2: 1-3: "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. "
"Matthew 5: 13, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt
have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good
for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
Matthew 5: 13 is describing the spiritual condition of the church after the
falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-7. "Savour" might be understood as
only referring to how salt gives food a better taste. But the Greek word
behind savour is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3471, moraino, from
3474, moros, "dull or stupid, as if to shut up, heedless, blockhead..."
Moraino is a cognitive condition. But in Matthew 5: 13 moranthe refers to
a spiritual condition. Under the many false prophets operating for
decades, the churches have lost their intelligence, which means their
spiritual discernment.
The Christian Capital C Church in the U.S. does not have an influence upon the obvious decline of morality in the United States in the past fifty and more years since the early sixties. The Church cannot now act to help prevent the increase of the dangerous division of the county by race, gender, age group, region or religion which is a purposeful old tactic of divide and conquer used by agitators, mostly trained in some brand of Marxism.
TOL is a larger forum which has more people in it from the Capital C Churches.
Jeremiah 29:9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD."
II Peter 2: 1-3: "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. "
"Matthew 5: 13, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt
have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good
for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
Matthew 5: 13 is describing the spiritual condition of the church after the
falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-7. "Savour" might be understood as
only referring to how salt gives food a better taste. But the Greek word
behind savour is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3471, moraino, from
3474, moros, "dull or stupid, as if to shut up, heedless, blockhead..."
Moraino is a cognitive condition. But in Matthew 5: 13 moranthe refers to
a spiritual condition. Under the many false prophets operating for
decades, the churches have lost their intelligence, which means their
spiritual discernment.
The Christian Capital C Church in the U.S. does not have an influence upon the obvious decline of morality in the United States in the past fifty and more years since the early sixties. The Church cannot now act to help prevent the increase of the dangerous division of the county by race, gender, age group, region or religion which is a purposeful old tactic of divide and conquer used by agitators, mostly trained in some brand of Marxism.
TOL is a larger forum which has more people in it from the Capital C Churches.
Why would anyone want to esteem, use, promote and invoke the bible?
When it is confirmed:
Colossians: 1 KJV N.T.
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
The above confirms that the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven is not at all in the Old Testament nor is it every where in the KJV N.T.
The above confirms that the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven was made available only to His Saints. Saints are Christians, i.e. the chosen few, not the many called.
This mystery was given only to the disciples, in very private session among only them. Therefore it was intended that the disciple would be Saints. This is when the hidden mysteries came to earth among those people, not before:
Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
This mystery relates to what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love can do for Saints:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
When it is confirmed:
Colossians: 1 KJV N.T.
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
The above confirms that the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven is not at all in the Old Testament nor is it every where in the KJV N.T.
The above confirms that the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven was made available only to His Saints. Saints are Christians, i.e. the chosen few, not the many called.
This mystery was given only to the disciples, in very private session among only them. Therefore it was intended that the disciple would be Saints. This is when the hidden mysteries came to earth among those people, not before:
Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
This mystery relates to what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love can do for Saints:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
On the inability of the Church in the U.S. to help prevent the increasing division of the country brought about by Marxist agitators, Acts 17:24-26 is interesting: "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25. Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"
Ethnos could be translated as people, rather than nations. αιματος, aimatos, is blood. By God making all people of one blood he does not mean God made all men of one bloodline. He means that God united all people by the blood of one Jesus Christ, which is a spiritual uniting. God brings all people together.
And Christians can have the spiritual power from God to prevent divisions among people by race, gender, age group, etc brought about by agitators.
Even Beethoven in his 9th symphony echoes a similar teaching, "Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brueder."Your magic powers join again
What fashion strictly did divide; All people become brothers."
25. Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"
Ethnos could be translated as people, rather than nations. αιματος, aimatos, is blood. By God making all people of one blood he does not mean God made all men of one bloodline. He means that God united all people by the blood of one Jesus Christ, which is a spiritual uniting. God brings all people together.
And Christians can have the spiritual power from God to prevent divisions among people by race, gender, age group, etc brought about by agitators.
Even Beethoven in his 9th symphony echoes a similar teaching, "Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brueder."Your magic powers join again
What fashion strictly did divide; All people become brothers."
Note:
The division and fighting in the world is only among Old Testament (i.e. law and/or flesh) people. It is not among N.T. (i.e. spirit and Spirit) people.
The above is the natural separation in the world.
Judgment is based on how one soweth:
Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh (i.e. according to the O.T.) shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit (i.e. according to the N.T.) shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
This natural seperation will only intensify.
Law and/or flesh people (i.e. O.T. people) are on the left side of Jesus.
Spirit and spirit people (i.e. N.T. people) are on the right side of Jesus.
Currently they are being separated as follows:
Matthew: 25 King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (these are O.T. people, like Ishmael)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (these are N.T. people, like Isaac)
The above separation is based on the following, which is based on the two covenants, allegory and prophetic:
Galatians: 4 KJV N.T.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh (i.e. Ishmael and his generation) persecuted him that was born after the Spirit (i.e. Isaac and his generation), even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son (i.e. Ishmael and his generation): for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (i.e. Isaac and his generation).
The above is totally and literally supported by KJV N.T. revelations. It is critical that you know this, now, in the fullness of time. This is your last shot at truth as confirmed literally by KJV N.T. revelations.
. . . see next post:
Last edited:
One who is converted (i.e. transformed from being 'the spiritually dead' to being spiritually aware) is instructed, by God, to transgress the 'thou shall not covert commandments' so as to serve in the newness of spirit/love.
Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
The above confirm that 'when you were in the flesh, you were held under the ten commandments. The concurs with 'the law is your schoolmaster to bring you onto spiritual awareness (faith) and Christ, then you are no longer under a schoolmaster'.
Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Those who esteem, use, promote and invoke the ten commandments are in the flesh. They soweth to the flesh. Only one who is in the flesh will discern wisdom in the ten commandments.
He that soweth to his flesh (i.e. according to the O.T.) shall of the flesh reap corruption.
Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh (i.e. according to the O.T.) shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit (i.e. according to the N.T.) shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
You have to be converted and achieve live communion with the Spirit of Jesus (as only Paul did) in order to survive the current, 'melt down' on earth.
. . . see next post
Romans: 7 KJV N.T.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
The above confirm that 'when you were in the flesh, you were held under the ten commandments. The concurs with 'the law is your schoolmaster to bring you onto spiritual awareness (faith) and Christ, then you are no longer under a schoolmaster'.
Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Those who esteem, use, promote and invoke the ten commandments are in the flesh. They soweth to the flesh. Only one who is in the flesh will discern wisdom in the ten commandments.
He that soweth to his flesh (i.e. according to the O.T.) shall of the flesh reap corruption.
Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh (i.e. according to the O.T.) shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit (i.e. according to the N.T.) shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
You have to be converted and achieve live communion with the Spirit of Jesus (as only Paul did) in order to survive the current, 'melt down' on earth.
. . . see next post
Last edited:
To be converted is as follows:
Matthew: 18 KJV N.T.
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven
Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
One must become converted, i.e. one must be transformed from being the dead to being spiritually aware (i.e. one must cease having a heart or spirit that is waxed gross). Then one can search one's own heart or spirit to discern the Spirit. 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Lord Jesus within one's own heart or spirit.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Then when one is led into all of one's works only by: precisely what the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do, as discerned through one's own heart or spirit, one soweth to Spirit. This is the only way to soweth to Spirit.
The above is how one believes in Jesus. And one who believes in Jesus is not in any way connected to the ten commandments. In fact, one is instructed, by God, to transgress the ten commandments, so as to serve spirit/love.
Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Let no one misled you.
To soweth to Spirit one must be a Christian. And the above is the only path to being a Christian.
Parroting slogan . . . with out the above transformation and achievement . . . is a total waste of time and corruption of truth. That is simply a 'waxed heart' confession.
Parroting slogans, without the above actualization and experience, is to 'savorest' the things of man and not the things of God. It is the way of Satan.
Matthew: 18 KJV N.T.
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven
Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
One must become converted, i.e. one must be transformed from being the dead to being spiritually aware (i.e. one must cease having a heart or spirit that is waxed gross). Then one can search one's own heart or spirit to discern the Spirit. 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Lord Jesus within one's own heart or spirit.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Then when one is led into all of one's works only by: precisely what the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do, as discerned through one's own heart or spirit, one soweth to Spirit. This is the only way to soweth to Spirit.
The above is how one believes in Jesus. And one who believes in Jesus is not in any way connected to the ten commandments. In fact, one is instructed, by God, to transgress the ten commandments, so as to serve spirit/love.
Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Let no one misled you.
To soweth to Spirit one must be a Christian. And the above is the only path to being a Christian.
Parroting slogan . . . with out the above transformation and achievement . . . is a total waste of time and corruption of truth. That is simply a 'waxed heart' confession.
Parroting slogans, without the above actualization and experience, is to 'savorest' the things of man and not the things of God. It is the way of Satan.
Last edited:
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
This is all very true. In terms of a Christian forum, though, at least at one time, I was of the premise it is supposed to be a Christian community, had an expectation it should be, mainly, a different experience than of the world. Personally, insults, whatever, don't even rattle me, in the least, this not my complaint. What I find negative are the endless, boring pages of people working out their anger management issues. It's not theology, more like children fighting on a play ground. It's just not even adult. Also, I really don't see the point of discussing things with people who, for instance, go on for a hundred pages, after a hundred such threads, disputing the deity of the Lord Jesus. Doesn't anybody else find that lame and boring? I'm not one who needs to see people repeat themselves a thousand times, would, actually, find somebody in real life a bit nuts, who constantly repeats the same things. I neither see any of it a service to God, in any way, shape or form, to engage in endless insulting disputing, would not seek such people out in real life, who behave like angry pagans.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
In recent years, I've noticed, a lot, where the decline has reached insanity, where the evil are not even consistent in their agenda, like the promotion of homosexuality and Islam in the West, at the same time. (As a matter of fact, the two only meet around the devil.) I think a lot of Romans 1:28 seeing such things, the phenomenon of simply reprobate minds, diseased minds, at work before our very eyes, institutional reprobation, people who are, in fact, doing everything to destroy themselves, their own worst enemies, who've gone stupid in their evil.
Back to "Matthew 5: 13, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt
have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good
for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
Why does the present day Church have little or no influence upon the culture, education, business, and government in the United States, to help the country keep those values which came from Scripture? And most in the Church may not even know what values in the creation of the U.S. came from scripture.
Historian Quentin Skinner in The Foundations of Modern Political
Thought, 1978, goes over the influence of several Scotch and English Christians, such as John Knox and Samuel Rutherford on John Locke and the late 18th century American political ideology behind the creation of the Constitutional Republic. John Knox and Samuel Rutherford got their teachings on individual rights and on just government from scripture.
John Locke's book, Two Treatises of Government, according to Skinner, influenced Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, and had an influence on James Madison and other Founding Fathers.
The Church after the Falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 does not have the spiritual strength to influence the world because too few of its members are born again, as indicated by what they say and how they behave. Those who are not born again are in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 who does not discern the things of the Spirit.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ remade the Old Testament system of the Pharisees which was for the multitude of Old Covenant Israel. To participate in that remaking individuals have to be born again in Christ. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3: 5
Those not born again may be Church members but are not part of the kingdom of God.
have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good
for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
Why does the present day Church have little or no influence upon the culture, education, business, and government in the United States, to help the country keep those values which came from Scripture? And most in the Church may not even know what values in the creation of the U.S. came from scripture.
Historian Quentin Skinner in The Foundations of Modern Political
Thought, 1978, goes over the influence of several Scotch and English Christians, such as John Knox and Samuel Rutherford on John Locke and the late 18th century American political ideology behind the creation of the Constitutional Republic. John Knox and Samuel Rutherford got their teachings on individual rights and on just government from scripture.
John Locke's book, Two Treatises of Government, according to Skinner, influenced Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, and had an influence on James Madison and other Founding Fathers.
The Church after the Falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 does not have the spiritual strength to influence the world because too few of its members are born again, as indicated by what they say and how they behave. Those who are not born again are in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14 who does not discern the things of the Spirit.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ remade the Old Testament system of the Pharisees which was for the multitude of Old Covenant Israel. To participate in that remaking individuals have to be born again in Christ. "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3: 5
Those not born again may be Church members but are not part of the kingdom of God.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Though not an historian, indeed, something very rancid seemed to emerge in the 1960's, to where we have an almost pure generation of me, now. Scripture speaks much to the world versus the kingdom, those of the flesh versus those of the Spirit. I've long postulated that at the heart of being of the flesh is narcissism. Being one's own god seemed to emerge from 1960's America, in spades, discarding God and fixed moral precepts for "doing your own thing." In terms of one's theology, this can be fatal, as it leads to believing what one wants to believe, exegesis that conforms scripture to vain prejudices, hence false doctrines. Have you noticed how Eastern religions became all the rage in the 60's, that teach people are their own gods? Is that just a rehash of the serpent in the Garden, or what? (Ecclesiastes 1:9) And you'll notice that even when clear scripture refutes the claims of cults or cultish people, they refuse to part with their prejudices, that vanity, that flesh that rules in their hearts. You often enough see on message boards those who shove the scripture you cite under the rug, change the subject, obfuscate the issue by raising another tangent: they simply refuse truth, as God's truth is, actually, not compatible with the one who actually rules in their lives, which is me, not Thee. I can't count the times the answer is that, "Well, that's all a parable." Or, "That's only allegory." In other words, the claim is the Bible doesn't mean what it says, and why? Because it disagrees with me, myself and I.
It's the flesh and vanity on parade, hence why you see all the anger. People do not like to be called out when they're in error or lying, do not want to see a strong case that proves they're wrong. Have you ever noticed in your life, in general, how people caught in lies often get very angry, lash out? Why? It's a blow to their ego, big-time. A liar prides himself on being smarter than the person or persons he seeks to deceive. When he is caught out, it's a defeat, a blow to his ego that he failed to deceive, and this makes him very angry, to be actually shown the dupe. People in religious cults simply must be right and superior. You see it in the Scribes and Pharisees, called out by the Lord Jesus, exposed, and livid over it. You see this a lot on message boards, because the self that reigns supreme in many people has an agenda, which is either make proselytes of their false doctrines, their cults, or to deceive others, often enough those simply doing the devil's work, tares, refuting the things of God. I'm certain enough a few people here actually hate God and subtly, more often not so, do anything they can to undermine truth, suspect this behind some of the trolling. It's a formula for shameful volatility, people unrestrained to wear their mental issues on their sleeves and lashing out, when you throw in the bravery of the anonymous login.
Another thing about cults (most of the false doctrine you see here of some known cult, often people being parrots of some website), which ties in to the narcissism, is that cults are like sugar to egos. They make people believe they're special, the only true church, the only ones with secret knowledge, hence it appeals to people, many of whom are inherently legends in their own minds. Now, they even have a religion that affirms their superiority over all others who don't share their doctrines, and they prance around in that costume, regardless anything the Holy Bible may have to say, contrary. The devil and his cult false prophets exploit narcissism to the max, that people want to be their own gods, that people want to feel superior to others. You see this all the time.
I've so often just thought they should cut to the chase, when you show them they're wrong by scripture, just plainly state they don't believe the Bible, that they don't share the Christian faith of the Bible. But you seldom, almost never, see such honesty. I find it ludicrous to carry on a theological conversation with somebody who refutes scripture, in the first place, pretending there's some basis in the word of God for their beliefs, incessantly citing scripture that often demonstrates nothing to support their claims, even a different subject matter, different point being made in scripture than they claim, at very best scripture truth lifted out of context. On what basis can you have a discussion with somebody who rejects God's truth? It seems you can only show them what scripture states, and maybe, or maybe not, hang around to see the evil they post in return, but, better, move along. What I most fail to understand is people who go on for pages, arguing with each other until the whole conversations becomes inane, the topic often lost. It seems to me there are even Christians with anger management issues and are here for trolling reasons, just seeking attention. More often than not, I've entered a thread and seen pages of mindless disputing and personal insults, which I find so very nowhere and boring, nothing even being said on the topic, and shameful to think humans behave this way, in a purportedly Christian forum. I have seen secular forums with much more civility and intelligence.
In any case, much of what goes on here is about me, not Thee, and a lot of that tied to mental issues, sociopathic behavior that clearly violates Christian behavioral dictates of scripture, which not even the Christians here seem to pay any attention to. There is actually near nobody here who actually believes the whole of scripture enough to conduct themselves accordingly, very little interest in the fruit of the Spirit. This does beg the question, then, what spirit is producing the fruit? Isn't that a legitimate question, when you see those behaving of the flesh, continually? Can a person actually be saved and be a mean, hateful, even deceptive person, who often even demonstrates no Holy Spirit understanding of scripture? If the Holy Spirit leads the believer into all truth, what happened to some people, who don't seem to have been led to truth? And, what do you know, are also angry, mean people, who live to dispute and say evil things? Just as a matter of fact, I've never known any good Christians who act like this, or dispute fundamental Bible truths.
Incidentally, you deceptive people, with all your anger? For instance, the other day I was personally condemned by a, clearly, hateful person, called an unbeliever by somebody I'd never communicated with, really knows nothing about me, blah, blah, blah. It was just so dumb an attack. And this a person who rejects the deity of the Lord Jesus. When guys like you say evil things, I enjoy it! When you slander, I enjoy it. I could only be hurt by somebody of truth and unblemished reputation and conduct, who, in terms of the faith, pointed out some evil I stated that refutes scripture or the like. But you gratuitously nasty people, with your little insults? You're only like a snake, showing its fangs. So what? I know I never expect any different. It's just affirming what you are, when you squirm so and take offense at truth. It's something to rejoice in, when you've ruffled the devil's feathers enough to see some fang. You're not as clever as you think, and you should keep this in mind, that perhaps sometimes you only make a fool of yourself, with your gratuitous vanities and attacks? Not that I don't like to rejoice and be exceedingly glad, mind you...
Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
I would also urge any sincere Christians here, who tend to be hurt by insults, to understand this is a good thing, that there are even times when you may have said something so truthful and spot on the devil flinched. Just remember you're really in trouble if everybody likes you, if the devil doesn't see any reason to come after you. In fact, if he and his are not your enemy, the question you should ask is, "Why not?!"
Last edited:
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
I've long believed you can thank Hollywood for a lot of it. The secular culture is an incessant promoting of things of the world and the flesh, for a long time now a campaign to remove God from the public square. We're to where sin is the fodder of situation comedies. People are taught, by even their commericials on TV, that life is a grab for stuff. Even the good guys in movies are often big-time sinners, put forward as role models, drinking and fornicating their way to finally shooting some bad guy, careful to include showing some brains sprayed on the wall. I remember an elder relative telling me it was a shock to the nation, when Clark Gable said he didn't "give a damn" in Gone with the Wind. Circa 2016, we're just frogs brought to boil by Hollywood, for all I know "damn" now acceptable in childrens' cartoons, in any event what is now acceptable of man is "that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." And nobody says boo about it. It's even called entertainment. "And man saw the evil he wrought, and said that it was good." Black is now white, down is up...
The things of God have become antithetical to the entire culture of the flesh being promoted, the pressures of which can successfully fight against people seeking the things of God and the spiritual, with no desire for things of the Spirit that don't reward them with carnal pleasures the society is based upon and promoting as the very meaning of life. Think about the word "love" in the pop culture, in that song or drama. It's actually synonymous of lust, of sex, in the context, has nothing to do with agape. When somebody says, "I love you," it's really, "I lust after you." And people wonder why so many marriages go south.
From the looks of your OP it is you who is acting like an "angry pagan" and, besides that, you already have a forum board that is geared toward everything you are opining over; that board is called ECT, ("Exclusively Christian Theology"), and is clearly marked and linked at the top of this forum board. This board is called RELIGION and appears to be open to everyone, the last time I checked, and likewise it appears to be geared toward the very people you are whining and neighing about.
:deadhorse:
If you take the traits listed for people in the last days when perilous times shall come in II Timothy 3: 2-5 and compare these traits to those found by some social scientists who described the counterculture of the sixties and seventies and the so called larger Me Generation, you will see a good match.
For example, "Lovers of their own selves." II Timothy 3: 2
Social scientists Hendin, Lasch and Yankelovich said that people in the New Culture show a great
deal of self-peoccupation. They also place much importance on
attaining self-esteem.
II Timothy 3: 16: "Lovers of Pleasure Rather Than Lovers of God." Hendin found that
his college student subjects of the early seventies sought after
momentary physical sensations of pleasure in sex, touch, taste, taking
drugs, more than in long term fulfillments.
In the counterculture there were at least
four major strands of rebellion against the older culture of absolute
truth and morality, based on the patriarchal authority of God. These
are:
l. An Increase in Selfishness and Self-Preoccupation.
2. The Revolt Against Christianity, Especially Opposing Christian Morality
3. The Reduction of the Human To Desire, Feelings and Conditioning,
that is the "killing" of any development of man's third part, which is
his spirit, developed in him by the Holy Spirit..
4. The Denial of what George Orwell Called Objective Reality. The New
Culture of Transformational Marxism not only allows
for the telling of lies in certain circumstances. As a culture, it
also teaches that there may be no agreed upon reality outside your
individual mind against which your statements can be checked to see if
you are telling lies or not. In the drug movement the idea that one
creates his own reality was taught by Tim Leary, Ken Kesey, Richard
Alpert and other leaders.
George Orwell's denial of objective reality is much the same as what Marxism teaches, that
there is no absolute truth and no absolute or enduring morality.
"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)
As Benjamin Bloom, who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "“We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)
The three books by social scientists I read in the early eighties about the traits of
people in the counterculture and Me Generation are:
Herbert Hendin. The Age of Sensation, 1975.
Christopher Lasch. The Culture of Narcissism: American Life In An Age
of Diminishing Expectations, 1978.
Daniel Yankelovich. New Rules: Searching for Self-Fulfillment In A
World Turned Upside Down, 1981.
For example, "Lovers of their own selves." II Timothy 3: 2
Social scientists Hendin, Lasch and Yankelovich said that people in the New Culture show a great
deal of self-peoccupation. They also place much importance on
attaining self-esteem.
II Timothy 3: 16: "Lovers of Pleasure Rather Than Lovers of God." Hendin found that
his college student subjects of the early seventies sought after
momentary physical sensations of pleasure in sex, touch, taste, taking
drugs, more than in long term fulfillments.
In the counterculture there were at least
four major strands of rebellion against the older culture of absolute
truth and morality, based on the patriarchal authority of God. These
are:
l. An Increase in Selfishness and Self-Preoccupation.
2. The Revolt Against Christianity, Especially Opposing Christian Morality
3. The Reduction of the Human To Desire, Feelings and Conditioning,
that is the "killing" of any development of man's third part, which is
his spirit, developed in him by the Holy Spirit..
4. The Denial of what George Orwell Called Objective Reality. The New
Culture of Transformational Marxism not only allows
for the telling of lies in certain circumstances. As a culture, it
also teaches that there may be no agreed upon reality outside your
individual mind against which your statements can be checked to see if
you are telling lies or not. In the drug movement the idea that one
creates his own reality was taught by Tim Leary, Ken Kesey, Richard
Alpert and other leaders.
George Orwell's denial of objective reality is much the same as what Marxism teaches, that
there is no absolute truth and no absolute or enduring morality.
"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)
As Benjamin Bloom, who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "“We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)
The three books by social scientists I read in the early eighties about the traits of
people in the counterculture and Me Generation are:
Herbert Hendin. The Age of Sensation, 1975.
Christopher Lasch. The Culture of Narcissism: American Life In An Age
of Diminishing Expectations, 1978.
Daniel Yankelovich. New Rules: Searching for Self-Fulfillment In A
World Turned Upside Down, 1981.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
You have these teachings and the agenda of academics we've all seen, but I'm not sure most people even subscribe to any philosophy, would know much of anything of philosophers you mention to cognitively subscribe to any complex philosophy. I see a real spiritual decline. Maybe this is the prevailing philosophy, "If it feels good, do it."
What's different, at least in the U.S. in recent years, are the sharper dividing lines between people of faith and the culture at large, our very leadership driving towards the abyss. We have openly immoral leadership that's defiant of God, which, at least, lets the cat out of the bag, and we really know who's who these days, at least no doubt as to what those are who promote things no Christian would. I believe God is increasingly leaving the Godless world to its own devices, ironically, allowing them the things that will lead to their destruction. I don't even believe it's based in philosophy, as if academics, but the powers-that-be are simply sold out to Satan and of reprobate minds, lacking a moral compass and sound intellect, that they are on Satan's payroll and in Satan's pocket, and doing his bidding, as evidenced by conflicting agendas that only have commonality in being Satanic, promoting sin and evil that will ruin even their own childrens' worlds.
Romans 1 speaks to this senseless and decadent evil that makes the reprobate go stupid and cut their own noses off. There's the blind that lead the blind into the ditch, or the person who falls into the ditch they dug for somebody else. There's also, as you well mention, 2 Timothy 3, that may as well read like a newspaper of the me culture, anymore. But it's spiritual depravity, at its roots, people being controlled by demonic influences, all around us, actually.
Ephesians 6
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Of course, your unregenerate man has nothing to stand on, is putty in the devil's hand, to the extent that God will allow in the world, at least while His elect are present. I have more and more become aware, studied and witnessed, the demonic at work in this world, and it's more a problem than many think, little realization it has "come to a neighborhood near you," that one driven by demons doesn't necessarily have a head that spins around and spews green pea soup. It could very well be that irritating jerk across the street or the guy who replied to your message board post.
Maybe it could all be characterized as a permutation of Occam's razor, from what I've seen, the stupidest explanation most often the correct one. There are just a lot of sleazeballs, anymore. In these times, I believe the devil will run out of money, before he runs out of souls.
At the time I was becoming a believer in Christ's Gospel I was back in Austin after having spent a number of years in Madison, Wisconsin in a sub-culture which was the counterculture. I was led at that time to study II Timothy 3: 1-8 and to apply it to the counterculture and the Me Generation.
In discussing how the traits Paul lists in II Timothy 3: 1-9 agree with the traits of people in the counterculture as found by Herbert Hendin, Christopher Lasch and Daniel Yankelovich my point is that Paul's prophecy is accurate for the counterculture. I observed it too from 1962 until I left Madison in 1978.
Herbert Hendin is a psychiatrist. Christopher Lasch is a historian and professor of history. Daniel Yankelovitch is a psychologist who focused on public opinion research. None of these people are philosophers.
In discussing how the traits Paul lists in II Timothy 3: 1-9 agree with the traits of people in the counterculture as found by Herbert Hendin, Christopher Lasch and Daniel Yankelovich my point is that Paul's prophecy is accurate for the counterculture. I observed it too from 1962 until I left Madison in 1978.
Herbert Hendin is a psychiatrist. Christopher Lasch is a historian and professor of history. Daniel Yankelovitch is a psychologist who focused on public opinion research. None of these people are philosophers.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
That's very interesting. I'm not familiar with the works of the names you mention, had no idea whether or not they are philosphers by discipline, meant they have a counter culture philosophy you cite, put it that way. Anyway, what you observed is also evidenced by a pandemic of people who show symptoms of what, in the secular sciences, are borderline narcissitic personality disorders, which, in practice, are too often people who exhibit behaviors indicative of demonic influence.
I was just watching still another interview of a murderer a few weeks ago who didn't deny his crime, and the police were baffled by his possible motive. This isn't the first time I've heard this, hence mention it: he said he didn't now why he did it. You get these people now and again who have done horrible things, who have the compacity to be honest and acknowledge their crimes, express remorse, who wish they knew, themselves, why they did what they did. There are often drugs involved, often legal psychiatric drugs, which I have no doubt are entry vehicles for demonic influence. Also interesting is how they sometimes express that, when they committed their crimes, it was like it was somebody else doing them, like they were watching a movie, this another very strange, recurrent testimony you see here and there. They will often even talk about their crimes as something that "happened," talk about when their victim "was killed." They're moving along, talking about these things as if an observer, on the outside. I believe demons took over these people, that it, actually, is the only thing that makes sense. The narcissism is so prevalent it's even all over TV anymore, true crime shows, made for TV movies, based on true crimes, narcissists doing horrible things worse than ever, in our lifetimes. You know things have gone to the devil, when criminal, narcissistic mental disorders are an industry, with enough material to have 24x7, true crime networks on TV, 2 Timothy 3:1.
And what about this. How about all these spousal murders, where the victim is a man or woman of good reputation, often active in a church congregation, who never harmed or affronted anybody, and they viciously slain, in a raging overkill? Stabbed fifty times, or with the whole clip emptied into them? It's creepy, like the devil, in a rage, targeting the best people. And the killer always goes to trial and turns their victim into a monster nobody else ever saw in that, often, kind and gentle person, now conveniently dead and unable to speak for themselves: 1) Murderers. 2) Liars. And fancy this, John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Speaking of narcissism, Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
The truth be told, there's more to what goes on than meets the eye. If you didn't believe in demons, you'd call their activities in men mental illnesses.
Ben Masada
New member
Hey Northwye, Indeed, I wish you had become a believer in the gospel of Jesus. We would have been today on the same side of the fence. Why? Because Jesus was a Jew and, his gospel was the Tanach. Perhaps you are confusing the gospel of Jesus with the gospel of Paul which was the NT. Isn't that so?
I mentioned that one of the four major strands of rebellion by the counterculture was what George Orwell called the Denial of Objective Reality, and that Orwell's denial of objective reality is much the same as what Marxism teaches, that there is no absolute truth and no absolute or enduring morality.
"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)
What Dean Gotcher calls the dialectic is a method of argument against that which is absolute truth and absolute morality - the word of God - by people who reject that absolute truth and absolute morality.
Examples of the use of the dialectic can be clearly seen in Genesis 3: 1-6 and in much of the dialogue between Jesus Christ and the Pharisees in John 8.
Gotcher points out that false doctrines are promoted and defended by the use of the dialectic. There are various specific kinds of arguments against the word of God, all of which fall under the heading of the dialectic.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Gotcher says here that "Didactic thinking is not holy but it is the only structure God communicates to. God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind, even though it might quote scripture. You either fear God, or fear man, you can not fear both. "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." (Jeremiah 17:5)
"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." (Jeremiah 2:13) "
Gotcher's writing and talks require a long attention span and some background to understand and partly for this reason he is not liked by Church people. He is a preacher and also a scholar.
Christ does not speak into the dialectic mind of men in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, who does not understand the things of the Spirit. The
dialectic mind does not receive the Spirit, nor does Christ put his
mind into man's dialectic mind. "Let this mind be in you, which was
also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this
mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of
glory." Colossians 1 27
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ
Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:
1
The dialectic mind walks after the flesh, not after the Spirit. It is
mired in the flesh by the dialectic; it cannot have the mind of Christ
in it. The dialectic mind starts from man's reasoning and goes farther
away from God into the process of debate. In using subtle ways of
debating against the truth of scripture, the dialectic mind moves far
away from God.
"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)
What Dean Gotcher calls the dialectic is a method of argument against that which is absolute truth and absolute morality - the word of God - by people who reject that absolute truth and absolute morality.
Examples of the use of the dialectic can be clearly seen in Genesis 3: 1-6 and in much of the dialogue between Jesus Christ and the Pharisees in John 8.
Gotcher points out that false doctrines are promoted and defended by the use of the dialectic. There are various specific kinds of arguments against the word of God, all of which fall under the heading of the dialectic.
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Gotcher says here that "Didactic thinking is not holy but it is the only structure God communicates to. God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind, even though it might quote scripture. You either fear God, or fear man, you can not fear both. "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." (Jeremiah 17:5)
"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." (Jeremiah 2:13) "
Gotcher's writing and talks require a long attention span and some background to understand and partly for this reason he is not liked by Church people. He is a preacher and also a scholar.
Christ does not speak into the dialectic mind of men in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, who does not understand the things of the Spirit. The
dialectic mind does not receive the Spirit, nor does Christ put his
mind into man's dialectic mind. "Let this mind be in you, which was
also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this
mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of
glory." Colossians 1 27
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ
Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:
1
The dialectic mind walks after the flesh, not after the Spirit. It is
mired in the flesh by the dialectic; it cannot have the mind of Christ
in it. The dialectic mind starts from man's reasoning and goes farther
away from God into the process of debate. In using subtle ways of
debating against the truth of scripture, the dialectic mind moves far
away from God.