Where?
ECT NO, THE BIBLE IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN'S ONLY AUTHORITY
- Thread starter Cruciform
- Start date
Where?
So you can't do that either. You are batting 0.
Cruciform
New member
Already answered.
Cruciform
New member
Already answered.
But where Cruc? Where did you counter the points I raised against the Marian doctrines? Where did you list Paul's traditions? Where did you ever do something other than say I don't have the authority to ask the questions in the first place?
jwp98
New member
Has anyone mentioned Revelation 22:19 yet? What better way to add to scripture than malleable tradition and oral history of mostly hidden provenance?
Numerous copies and translations of scripture don't quell debate over inclusion and interpretation. How much more nebulous then is oral tradition? How much a tool for any papal agenda?
If tradition were adequate would we need scripture? I must admit though vey difficult to interpret scripture without church history.
Also,
1 Cor 4:6
Proverbs 30:5,6
Deut 4:2
Deut 12:32
(Hi all. Long time no post)
Numerous copies and translations of scripture don't quell debate over inclusion and interpretation. How much more nebulous then is oral tradition? How much a tool for any papal agenda?
If tradition were adequate would we need scripture? I must admit though vey difficult to interpret scripture without church history.
Also,
1 Cor 4:6
Proverbs 30:5,6
Deut 4:2
Deut 12:32
(Hi all. Long time no post)
Cruciform
New member
I've already answered you on both your "War-and-Peace"-length post on the Marian Doctrines and your demand on where to locate the apostolic Traditions of St. Paul. You do not prefer these answers. We get that. The answers, however, stand exactly as posted.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
And yet, not one of the biblical text you cited actually teaches sola scriptura. Rev. 22:19, for example, is referring specifically to "the prophecies of this book," that is, the book of Revelation itself. In any case, the Catholic Church has "added" nothing whatsoever to the Scriptures since the Church herself formally defined the canon of scripture in the 4th century A.D. No inspired writings have been "added" to the Bible since that time, nor will they be. The biblical canon is closed.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Scripture is necessary to know the true from the counterfeit. To measure a true yard, you need a yardstick. The New Testament faith is the only true Christian faith.
Obviously, traditions of men are the devil's playground, the stuff self serving cults are made of.
Cruciform
New member
Yes, "traditions of men" are certainly condemned in Scripture. Not so, however, with Apostolic Tradition, which believers are actually commanded to follow and obey (2 Thess. 2:15; 1 Cor. 11:2). In short, there are two kinds of "tradition" in Scripture---one is condemned, and the other is commanded.
genuineoriginal
New member
There is a difference between the traditions of the Apostles and Apostolic Tradition.
The traditions of the Apostles are the traditions that the Apostles practiced and taught and are commended by the scriptures.
Apostolic Tradition are the traditions of men condemned by the scriptures.
Dona Bate
New member
Sadly for GO its his anti Catholic doctrine's which are in fact the traditions of men condemned in scripture. His latest screwball doctrine is well and truly refuted in Acts where we actually find Apostolic Tradition in action. Here we see the apostles (men) along with the* elders (also men), ALL actually making decisions together, consented to by the whole church (wow! even more men).
The apostles AND elders considered together in Acts 15:6.
The apostles AND the elders decided, WITH the consent of the whole church in Acts 15:22.
The decisions of the apostles AND elders were delivered from town to town for observance in Acts 16:4.
There you have it, new oral Church traditions being decided by the Church to be taught and handed on as it has traditionally been done by the Church to this very day.
God Bless!
genuineoriginal
New member
If the church of Rome followed the scriptures instead of making up traditions, then God would never have needed to bring in the Reformation.
Saying I lack the authority to ask the questions is not an answer. Complaining that the post is to long speaks to simple laziness on your part.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
A classic Catholic argument for the torture murders of inquisitions and independent Christian group slaughters is, well, Protestants killed Catholics, too. Same sort of thing, at some point the persecuted rise up and often with anger. People who don't do the devil's work, in the first place, aren't begging for justice to come down, though the backlash may not have either been morally right.
The fact is, there's the bully who picks the fight that's culpable for the backlash, cause and effect. For some reason, some Catholics can't see this no-brainer, how silly such an argument is. It's like scripture disobedience: they just don't see it, make circular excuses for any and all things, which always get down to the Romans say so, therefore it's right.
What sort of societies would we have, if everybody made their own rules? What is the historic "proof in the pudding" of what Catholicism has led to, therefore how is it good now? Is a defanged wolf really domesticated? Where was the Holy Spirit in a scintilla of the horrors, over many generations?
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Cruciform
New member
I said no such thing---you just cannot seem to argue your case without engaging in directly fallacious reasoning, can you. Your "case," therefore, must not be very substantial, is it. No, you are perfectly free to ask about the Marian doctrines and Pauline Tradition. What you're not free to do is replace the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church with the assumptions and opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. Try again.
This glaring Red Herring on your part has also already been answered.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
I said
You don't follow the rules
STRICT RULES OF BELIEVING
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Mark 12:30-32
30 'And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
31 "And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
John 17:14-19
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
James 1:19-20
19 So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath;
20 for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
John 10:1-9
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 "Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."
6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
2 Cor 10:3-6
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
(NKJ)
xxx The new testament is the law of Christ, and Christ gave us many commandments to obey. If you cant claim it with a verse your in the milk understanding. If you cant dispute it with a verse your in the milk understanding. The meat understanding is done with the verses(The Word Of God). There are rules to believing. Dont think beyond what is written, or dont add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses. And never use your imagination.
John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)
John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
(NKJ)
Matt 5:19-20
19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
(NKJ)
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
(NKJ)
genuineoriginal
New member
The Church of Rome has no authoritative teachings.
That was proven at the first Council of Nicaea.
Dona Bate
New member
You wouldn't happen to have a scripture verse for where it says in the Bible "If the church of Rome followed the scriptures instead of making up traditions, then God would never have needed to bring in the Reformation." ?????
Thought not...So much for following scripture instead of making it up!
God Bless!
Dona Bate
New member
And here is GO's proof....
Sorry folks! As usual GO's forgotten to post any!?
God Bless!