No other doctrine
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John 3:16 (KJV) (compare 1st Timothy 1:16 KJV) This.
heir
TOL Subscriber
From the scriptures it appears to be "no other doctrine" than what Paul received, preached and taught: Romans 16:17 KJV, Philippians 3:17 KJV, 1 Timothy 1:11 KJV, 1 Timothy 6:3 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, 2 Timothy 3:10 KJV and not: Philippians 3:18-19 KJV, 1 Timothy 1:6-7 KJV.
So Paul did not teach 1st Timothy 1:16 (KJV), which bears, by any honest account, a striking similarity to John 3:16 (KJV)? :liberals: Me no understand.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Paul preached "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24) and according to him the believers who lived under the law and those who didn't were all saved by grace:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
Paul also made it plain that "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive:
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).
Paul knew that there would be some people who would be telling the Jews and the Gentiles that they could not be saved apart from works and that is why Paul said that they should teach no other doctrine than what he taught.
Even today we hear people teaching that the Jews as well as the Gentiles cannot be saved apart from works!
heir
TOL Subscriber
not seeing it. John was an apostle of the circ. Paul was the first for a pattern.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Timothy was to charge men that they teach no other doctrine than that Paul preached. It's clear from all of the passages that speak of following Paul, holding fast to the form of sound words heard of Paul, committing what he heard of Paul, consider what Paul says and on and on because teaching what was preached in the Hebrew epistles would be an other gospel and doctrine!
Didn't Paul preach what the Twelve preached?
It's remarkable, the similarity between the two passages, is all:
1st Timothy 1:16 (KJV) " Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. "
John 3:16 (KJV) " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "
heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul says he was first for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. It can't be the same if Paul's first!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, the words "other doctrines" are referring to "false doctrines." Let us look at the verse under discussion:
"As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine (heterodidaskaleō)..." (1 Tim.1:3).
Timothy's task in remaining was to control certain men in the congregation who were teaching false doctrines. Here the Greek word translated "other doctrine" is heterodidaskaleō, and in this verse that word means "'teach (no) other doctrine'...of what is contrary to the faith" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).
The following passage later in the same epistle speak of those men who were teaching false doctrine. And the same Greek word is used and by what is said it is obvious that the subject is "false doctrine":
"If any man teach otherwise (heterodidaskaleō), and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself" (1 Tim.6:3-5).
So Timothy was given the task to control some men in the congregation who were teaching false doctrine. So we can understand the following verse this way:
"As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no false doctrine..." (1 Tim.1:3).
heir
TOL Subscriber
It doesn't say "other doctrines". It's definitely no other doctrine than Paul's.
1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
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Paul preached the Holy Spirit's doctrine of grace, the same as the other apostles.
Here is a synopsis of that doctrine: Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." (Acts 10:34-35)
Now that is good news.
Paul's message was built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Paul said, "For we are God’s fellow workers, you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
heir
TOL Subscriber
I don't need to. I agree that the charge to teach no other doctrine is anything contrary to sound doctrine.
I believe that sound doctrine is the doctrine Paul laid out in the form of sound words in Romans through Philemon. Doctrine found outside of Paul's epistles could be construed as unsound for a member of the Body of Christ as those of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and Hebrews through Revelation had to DO things to prove their faith that we don't being in the but now. There's no point in discussing it with you as you do not approve of these things that are excellent. I really have nothing more to say to you.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul was emphatic!
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
According to your view what is said by Peter here has no place in the Body of Christ:
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.3:18).
According to your ideas the doctrine found here could "be construed as unsound for a member of the Body of Christ"!
Who can take you seriously?
" And Saul was consenting unto his death " Acts 8:1 (KJV). It could just be because Paul considered himself the chief of sinners (1Ti1:15KJV). None of the other Apostles had such an obvious and deep black mark on them, so Paul could be a pattern, being the first Apostle or otherwise, to be so powerfully forgiven of such grave matter, and so the first to reveal the magnificent power of the Lord's DBR so glaringly.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is right. The key to understanding this verse is the word "longsuffering":
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim.1:15-16).
As far as Paul was concerned the Lord was "longsuffering" toward him because he was first in rank as a sinner. He is saying that we should look at his own life "first" as an example that demonstrates just how far the grace of the Lord reaches. Paul sees himself as being not worthy to be an apostle because he "persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor.15:9). Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.