News from the Front... and Youth Groups

[Lighthouse]

I didn't mean children when I said girls. I meant children when I said, youth group. Pay attention Jefferson. I am too old to join a youth group. Zakath got that, why didn't you? Especially since I explained it to you at work, Wednesday night. Ask me the same question abnd replace "youth group" with "group for 20 somethings" and I'll answer you.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by lighthouse
Ask me the same question abnd replace "youth group" with "group for 20 somethings" and I'll answer you.

Okay, so if you attended a church group for 20 somethings that had a great teacher but there was not even 1 female in that group you would consider dating, would you still join it?

 

[Lighthouse]

Yes. Why do you ask?

 

[Lucky]

There's always hope one would join, right?

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by lighthouse

Yes. Why do you ask?

You do know that lying is a sin, right? :chuckle:

 

[Lighthouse]

Yes. I do know that lying is a sin. I am dead to sin. I am free from sin.

 

[ebenz47037]

As a rule, I would side with Lucky and Lighthouse on this subject. That was before seeing how most of the girls in my church's youth group dress for Wednesday night services. Year-round, you walk in and see girls aged 14 to 18 wearing short shorts, micro-mini skirts, belly shirts, and extremely tight clothing. I'd say that out of the 45 kids in the youth group, a little less than half are girls. And, out of those (give or take) 20 girls, 5 (including my daughter) do not dress to advertise their bodies. Those 5 girls generally wear blue jeans or skirts to their knees (or lower) and big shirts. My daughter tends to wear her favorite blue jeans with paint all over them and one of the t-shirts I've given her because I don't wear it anymore.

The youth pastor's wife complained about what my daughter wears to youth group. I called the pastor and told him, number one, she's my daughter. If someone doesn't like what she wears, they are to come to me, not her. I pretty much choose her clothes, even though she's 14. And, number two, they should look at these other girls dressing like prostitutes before they complain about my daughter when she's pretty much covered from neck to ankle.

When I was in youth group, it wasn't a social scene. We had Bible study and fellowship every week. Once a month, we had Bible study and pizza at the youth pastor's house. And, once a year, we had a youth Bible camp out, where 50 to 75 teens (both boys and girls) and ten to fifteen married couples would go to the lake and camp out and have Bible study and witnessing in June. We girls were not allowed to wear bikinis or short shorts while at the camp out. And, if we wanted to swim, we had to have one-piece swimsuits with tee-shirt and shorts over them.

Today's youth groups aren't like that, at least not from what I've witnessed in my own church.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by ebenz47037
Year-round, you walk in and see girls aged 14 to 18 wearing short shorts, micro-mini skirts, belly shirts, and extremely tight clothing.

Exactly. I was attending a church once and the pastor commented on how "nicely dressed" the members of the youth group were. I thought, "Yeah, if they were on their way to a night club."

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Jefferson

Exactly. I was attending a church once and the pastor commented on how "nicely dressed" the members of the youth group were. I thought, "Yeah, if they were on their way to a night club."

When our old youth pastor left, all the kids dressed conservatively for his going away dinner because it was with the entire church. When seeing the girls all in longer skirts and the boys with ties on, he asked, "Who died?"

I, honestly, have no problem with youth ministry. But, if the youth group is going to meet in the church, they should at least wear clothes that cover their bodies. After all, these are kids.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by ebenz47037
But, if the youth group is going to meet in the church, they should at least wear clothes that cover their bodies. After all, these are kids.

Yes, and after all, it's a house of worship.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Jefferson

Yes, and after all, it's a house of worship.

That's not what I meant. I meant, because they're children, they shouldn't dress that way, period. Heck, I don't dress that way myself.

IMHO, God will take you as you are, whether you dress like a slut or not. But, children should not be allowed to dress that way at all. I don't like to see a woman dress like that in church. But, I can handle it better than seeing children dress like that in general.

 

[Lighthouse]

When I was in a youth group the girls were told to wear one piece bathing suits any time we went swimming. And I never noticed any of them wearing things they should not wear, otherwise. And though I was attracted to a few of the girls I never "dated" any of them. I wanted to "date" a few of them, but that was only after I got to know them. And I only wanted a girl who was Godly. And I still want a Godly woman.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by lighthouse

When I was in a youth group the girls were told to wear one piece bathing suits any time we went swimming. And I never noticed any of them wearing things they should not wear, otherwise. And though I was attracted to a few of the girls I never "dated" any of them. I wanted to "date" a few of them, but that was only after I got to know them. And I only wanted a girl who was Godly. And I still want a Godly woman.

I don't remember how old you said you are, lighthouse. But, the last time I was in a youth group (before my daughter was old enough for one) was in 1987. :chuckle: Shows how old I am. My youth pastor made it clear that he didn't want any of us to wear anything that he wouldn't allow his own children to wear. That's what kids need right now. If the parents choose to give the job of teaching their teens to a youth pastor, he should make it clear that he's responsible for the image of themselves that they put out.

I believe it's the father's responsibility to teach the children. But, I grew up with no father until I was 17. So, my pastor and youth pastor taught me about God. My daughter has no father figure in her life. So, up to a point, I've asked the youth pastor and my pastor to help me out with her. I did not ask their wives to step in to help though. But, the youth pastor's wife took it upon herself to tell my daughter that she was dressed inappropriately in a large shirt and blue jeans when there were girls there who were wearing micro-mini skirts and belly shirts to "show off their new belly button rings." Nothing was said to those girls at all. Now, I may be old-fashioned. But, IMHO, those girls were the ones dressed inappropriately, not my daughter.

With the way the girls dress in our youth group, I will not allow my daughter to go to any youth outings that involve changing into swimsuits.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by lighthouse

When I was in a youth group the girls were told to wear one piece bathing suits any time we went swimming. And I never noticed any of them wearing things they should not wear, otherwise. And though I was attracted to a few of the girls I never "dated" any of them. I wanted to "date" a few of them, but that was only after I got to know them. And I only wanted a girl who was Godly. And I still want a Godly woman.

[Old Fogey Mode on:]
:ha: You backslidden weenies!

When I was in the Assemblies of God, we didn't even allow men and women to use the same swimming pool together. Once kids were out of grade school there was no more "mixed bathing" allowed on church-sponsored activities...

:ha:

[Old Fogey Mode off:]

 

[Lagardo]

We just had a swim party last night and I had only said "Modest Swimsuits Only." My wife judges the modesty. She had one put a shirt on over the suit. I was ver happy though not with the enforcement of modesty but of what my wife had the wisdom to share. The student (who is generally considered a leader in the group) didn't think her "tank-ini" was too revealing. My wife agreed but said, "If the others see a leader wearing that, where will they draw the line?" I like that the lesson went beyond what the girl wears and more to where she leads.

Anyway, I guess the easy answer is dress codes and teaching what to wear in church...the harder answer is to teach on holiness. So maybe that's another problem I see in my area of ministry...no one takes the hard road. I guess, I just wish more youth pastors thought things out, debated it a little, and focuesd more on the Spirit and less on the numbers.

Now a new twist on this thread. Youth minsitry is extremely prevelant and more and more churches are hiring youth pastors all the time. Also, more and more churches are looking for (for lack of a better term) professional youth ministers as opposed to ministers-in-training. Seminaries are responding by offering MDIV's and now even specific doctorate programs in youth ministry. This can open a ton of questions so here's a few:

Is it right for a church to have a youth pastor?

Is 'youth pastor' a legitimate calling?

What's a biblical model for a youth pastor?

Can the church have a youth pastor without a youth group?

Have fun,
Aaron "Lagardo" Davis
MDIV (emphasis: youth ministry), licensed, ordained.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Lagardo

We just had a swim party last night and I had only said "Modest Swimsuits Only." My wife judges the modesty. She had one put a shirt on over the suit. I was ver happy though not with the enforcement of modesty but of what my wife had the wisdom to share. The student (who is generally considered a leader in the group) didn't think her "tank-ini" was too revealing. My wife agreed but said, "If the others see a leader wearing that, where will they draw the line?" I like that the lesson went beyond what the girl wears and more to where she leads.

IMHO, your wife did the right thing. The only reason I get so upset about what I see these girls wear is because I cannot understand how a parent can let their daughter walk out of the house like that. I know that I don't let my daughter dress that way.

Anyway, I guess the easy answer is dress codes and teaching what to wear in church...the harder answer is to teach on holiness. So maybe that's another problem I see in my area of ministry...no one takes the hard road. I guess, I just wish more youth pastors thought things out, debated it a little, and focuesd more on the Spirit and less on the numbers.

I've tried to teach my daughter by example. And, up until she joined the youth group, I never heard, "...but her mom lets her wear it!" Now, I do and answer it with, "I'm not her mother."

Now a new twist on this thread. Youth minsitry is extremely prevelant and more and more churches are hiring youth pastors all the time. Also, more and more churches are looking for (for lack of a better term) professional youth ministers as opposed to ministers-in-training. Seminaries are responding by offering MDIV's and now even specific doctorate programs in youth ministry. This can open a ton of questions so here's a few:

Is it right for a church to have a youth pastor?

I think that if a church has a lot of teenagers and preteens, they should have a youth pastor. Sometimes, it's better if the message is aimed at their age group. Their parents already know about peer pressure and the temptations of sex and drugs and alcohol. Most teens I know, today, think that their parents know absolutely nothing. Hearing it from a youth pastor sometimes helps. They tend to respect the youth pastor more than their own parents and listen a little better.

Is 'youth pastor' a legitimate calling?

I believe it is. Every youth pastor that I've known has said that he felt the pull to youth ministry.

What's a biblical model for a youth pastor?

I'll have to look that up or ask my pastor if he has any suggestions there.

Can the church have a youth pastor without a youth group?

That's a hard one. Our youth pastor is the associate pastor at our church. But, unless there are absolutely no preteens and/or teens in the area of the church, I would say that a church can have a youth pastor even if they don't have a youth group. In my experience, youth pastors tend to be younger than pastors and teens' parents. So, having someone between the two generations isn't a bad idea.

Have fun,
Aaron "Lagardo" Davis
MDIV (emphasis: youth ministry), licensed, ordained.

 

[Lagardo]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

I think that if a church has a lot of teenagers and preteens, they should have a youth pastor. Sometimes, it's better if the message is aimed at their age group. Their parents already know about peer pressure and the temptations of sex and drugs and alcohol. Most teens I know, today, think that their parents know absolutely nothing. Hearing it from a youth pastor sometimes helps. They tend to respect the youth pastor more than their own parents and listen a little better.

Let me respond real quick to this statement. A few years back, an interesting study was done. 1000 teenagers at a church youth event were asked "When you are in trouble, who do you want to talk to about it?" Then, the parents of these youth were asked "When your teen is in trouble, who do they most want to talk to about it?"

Here's the respnse from the youth:
1. Friends
2. Parents
3. Teacher
4. Youth Pastor

And from the Parents:
1. Friends
2. Youth pastor
3. Teacher
4. Parents

Clearly, the parents are underating themselves and overating their youth pastors. I think teens are deperatly wanting to talk to their parents about the issues in their lives. I think the youth in my church would rather their parents talk to them about sex as opposed to me...I think they'd get more from the conversation.

This is a problem with modern youth ministries. Too often, we usurp the role of the parent instead of supporting it.

 

[ebenz47037]

Originally posted by Lagardo

Let me respond real quick to this statement. A few years back, an interesting study was done. 1000 teenagers at a church youth event were asked "When you are in trouble, who do you want to talk to about it?" Then, the parents of these youth were asked "When your teen is in trouble, who do they most want to talk to about it?"

Here's the respnse from the youth:
1. Friends
2. Parents
3. Teacher
4. Youth Pastor

And from the Parents:
1. Friends
2. Youth pastor
3. Teacher
4. Parents

Clearly, the parents are underating themselves and overating their youth pastors. I think teens are deperatly wanting to talk to their parents about the issues in their lives. I think the youth in my church would rather their parents talk to them about sex as opposed to me...I think they'd get more from the conversation.

This is a problem with modern youth ministries. Too often, we usurp the role of the parent instead of supporting it.

Well, you're probably right about that. And, although my 14 year old daughter thinks I know nothing (she's told me so), I make her talk to me. You notice under my username on the upper left side of my posts it says "Dictator in my daughter's mind."

In my case, I wish our youth pastor would step in a little more because I'm a widowed mom. There are no good Christian men who are willing to help out as a good example for my daughter to look at when later choosing a husband (not to choose as a husband, but to compare her future choices to).

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Lagardo
Here's the respnse from the youth:
1. Friends
2. Parents
3. Teacher
4. Youth Pastor

It looks like they responded in order of who they felt would understand them and their situation the most. Why do you think youth feel that their youth pastors understand them less than anyone else?

 

[Lagardo]

I think a lot of kids view thier youth pastor with a degree of suspicion. Either he comes across as perfect and the kis think he wouldn't understand, or the more cynical think, "he's paid to be a good Christian. I could do what God wants to, If I was at church all day."

One way I combat this is to first make myself realize that I might not be a superhero in their lives (and deal with any sin/pride that comes from that) and then recruit as many adults and parents as I can to help.