new jerusalem

[Caino]

Wish thinking for those who prefer to walk by faith rather then by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7) That's how Paul wished his followers walked by; faith, not sight. By sight walk those who walk with understanding. By faith, they would leave the understanding with Paul.

Do I need to color a picture for you Ben? I'm no fan or believer in Paul's remixed gospel about Jesus. I believe in the gospel of----> Jesus, the one the Jews were supposed to take to heart and teach the world. But you guys lost sight of the spiritual kingdom and became arrogant, segregated, quibbling theology lawyers. So, sadly, you were "un-chosen."


I have faith in the Father Just like Jesus did. I have faith in the unknown like Abraham did and many of his descendants after him.

 

[Ben Masada]

The "New Jerusalem" of Johns vision is the Mansion worlds where we will awake from the sleep of death to continue our journey inward to Paradise.

Delusion, some times does sound sweet.

 

[chrysostom]

-rome is new jerusalem
-it has a river running through it
-it has three gates in every direction
-it fled into the wilderness
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

-rome is new jerusalem
-it has a river running through it
-it has three gates in every direction
-it fled into the wilderness
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem

:chuckle:

 

[rako]

new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1
it has three gates in each direction 21:13

back to
the apocalypse

Did you check Orthodox commentaries on this?

 

[chrysostom]

Did you check Orthodox commentaries on this?

I have looked at many commentaries
-and
-have yet to see an orthodox one
-can you reference one?
-my view that rome is new jerusalem is unique to my knowledge

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

-my view that rome is new jerusalem is unique to my knowledge

Why doesn't the Magisterium have a view? What did Peter think was the New Jerusalem?

 

[rako]

Chrysostom!

I recommend getting an Orthodox or Church Fathers commentary on the Bible or finding them online. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom have book by book Bible Commentaries.

This one can be great, but it's a bit hard to use for me:
http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/index.htm

I have a Russian language one and love Lopukhin's commentary but it's not in English.

 

[rako]

http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

 

[chrysostom]

Chrysostom!

I recommend getting an Orthodox or Church Fathers commentary on the Bible or finding them online. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom have book by book Bible Commentaries.

This one can be great, but it's a bit hard to use for me:
http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/index.htm

I have a Russian language one and love Lopukhin's commentary but it's not in English.

Revelation (Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture)
-is
-just one of the books I have used in my research

 

[chrysostom]

http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

the temple is no more
-and
-it is reasonable to assume the church replaced it
-it is also reasonable to assume rome replaced jerusalem

 

[chrysostom]

http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

I am obviously a big fan of john chrysostom
-how does he rate with you?

 

[chrysostom]

the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

 

[HisServant]

the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

Yet Rome is under a perpetual curse by God... and it shows.

 

[chrysostom]

Yet Rome is under a perpetual curse by God... and it shows.

so how has it survived?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

Why does Rome look nothing like the new Jerusalem described in Revelation?
Did Rome come down from God out of heaven?

 

[HisServant]

so how has it survived?

Satan is alive and well in this world.

 

[rako]

I am obviously a big fan of john chrysostom
-how does he rate with you?

Pretty good.
He made an interesting observation that "generation" in Greek can mean tribe or race rather than a period of c. 120 years of a human life. He quoted Psalms LXX to that effect. This is important, he explained, when we turned to the Olivet Discourse and Jesus says that the generation doesn't pass way untl all the things happen.

Skeptics make a big deal out of that controversy in the Olivet Discourse, while Protestants typically aren't familiar with Chrysostom's apologia here.

 

[rako]

the temple is no more
-and
-it is reasonable to assume the church replaced it
-it is also reasonable to assume rome replaced jerusalem

The church is not a building, the temple was a building. John's gospel says no more worship in the temple but in hearts.

Rome is not one soul but a physical location like the Temple was .
Rome did not come down from heaven.
The Orthodox POV is not that Rome is the New Jerusalem.

Maybe in some sense it was until the schism, after which Constantinople and then Moscow became metaphorical Jerusalems. Moscow is sometimes called the third Rome.

But that is not the Orthodox POV on the Biblical phrase new Jerusalem though.

 

[chrysostom]

Rome did not come down from heaven.

do you expect new jerusalem to come down from heaven?