Nang's SPOTD is Tet's Hit Out of the Park!

[john w]

You believe in a rapture, and you believe Israel is under a different program than the church.

No one taught either of these things until Darby did.

There you go, TOL audience-sophistry...satanic...

 

[john w]

You believe in a rapture, and you believe Israel is under a different program than the church.

No one taught either of these things until Darby did.

Vs.

"That's not my argument. I have never said that dispensationalism was "wrong" because of how old it was. I specifically said that no one taught about Christ coming back twice before Darby did."--habitual liar Tet.


Ssssssssssssssssss...

He lies, more than he blinks/cries/wines.

 

[tetelestai]

So what? You keep going on to me specificly about the rapture as if it were something I spend time worrying about. That is just nutty!

The rapture is just part of it Delmar.

The rapture exists because of the demarcation line between Israel and the church.

Because of that demarcation line, Darby had to come up with a way for the church age believers to be secretly taken away.

This false teaching leads to many other false teachings, such as a denial of the NC, a denial of the Royal Priesthood, future animal sacrifices, etc.

 

[glorydaz]

The main points of Dispensationalism are the rapture/7 year Trib/Millennium, and the demarcation line between the church and Israel.

Nobody but Dispensationalists believe in the rapture.

Whether Acts 2, Acts 7, Acts 9, Acts 29, or any other chapter in Acts, all Dispies believe in a rapture.

The rapture was invented by Darby, and it was based on a vision.

You know....we have this great thing called google....

Irenaeus Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them. In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote: “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation. http://beginningandend.com/what-did-ancient-church-fathers-believe-about-the-rapture/​

 

[musterion]

Coming off Ignore for a second.

Darby and Scofield are best known for publishing their own versions of the Bible and adding commentary to revise all to fit their faulty Eschatology.

Bullinger is one of the most brilliant English translators ever but I've only seen the Companion Bible in KJV, accompanied by his translation notes in the margins. Same with Scofield: he only put notes below the KJV and made a study Bible, such as those I'm positive you own. Sproul's Reformation Study Bible, perhaps?

Neither Scofield nor Bullinger "published their own version of the Bible." Your laziness and ignorance never cease to astound but I'm out of here. My hand is getting calloused from constantly having to factually spank the two of you.

 

[john w]

...

.Darby and Scofield are best known for publishing their own versions of the Bible and adding commentary to revise all to fit their faulty Eschatology.

You are best known for perverting the gospel of Christ. My evidence? You:


"Any person who lives his life wrongly and does not repent of his sins, will be held responsible and judged for breaking God's laws and are justly consigned to death and hell. Sinners only receive what they have earned. Men reap what they sow.......A sinner who does not repent of his failings, wrong practices, and foul behavior proves to not belong to God, but manifests he is dead in his sins."-wolf-ette Nag

 

[Nang]

Also notice that upon learning Darby (reportedly) was as hardline a Calvinist as she is -- making Darby have more in common with HER than with us on some very important salvation issues -- Nang simply waves that aside and dismisses it. Why? The destruction of dispensationalism trumps all other concerns because she is Israel. Calvinist or not, Darby questioned that, to some extent...so he must be destroyed.

I have never claimed I am Israel.

Jesus Christ is the Elect Israel of God (Isaiah 42:1) and His church makes up the spiritual Israel taught in Romans Chapters 9 - 11.

I am a member of Christ's church body, which is "all Israel" that will be saved by His grace.

And I am not equipped or hopeful; neither do I post with any intent or expectation to "destroy" dispensationalism. My intent (God knows my heart) is to warn of that system's theological errors and unbiblical Eschatology, and the extremes to which they can lead.

 

[tetelestai]

You know....we have this great thing called google....

Yes, and if you use it correctly you will see that Irenaeus never taught a rapture.

 

[john w]

This false teaching leads to many other false teachings, such as a denial of the NC, a denial of the Royal Priesthood, future animal sacrifices, etc.

“They are deniers of the new covenant….. Dispensationalists deny the New Covenant.Dispensationalists claim Jesus is going to oversee animal sacrifices. Dispensationalists claim God still has a plan with certain fleshly people. These beliefs are a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross….You can't deny the New Covenant, and at the same time claim to adhere to Paul's gospel.Denying the New Covenant & Adhering to Paul's Gospel are mutually exclusive…. Denying the new covenant is a MAJOR point in my career.A denial of the New Covenant is a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross… If you deny the New Covenant is in place right now, then you deny what Jesus accomplished on the cross… The New Covenant was implemented with the shed blood of Christ Jesus.If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.. Why do you deny the New Covenant.(to GM)How can you say you follow Paul, and then deny the NC is in place right now?”- Craigie/Corky Tet. The Clown



I deny that:

-the NC is in effect today
-the NC is in place today
-the NC is inaugurated, and ..
-that it is applicable to members of the body of Christ.

Do I "deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross," and am I not adhering to Paul's gospel, and therefore lost?

Explain what "Paul's gospel" is, as I've asked you over10 times.

 

[Nang]

Coming off Ignore for a second.



Bullinger is one of the most brilliant English translators ever but I've only seen the Companion Bible in KJV, accompanied by his translation notes in the margins. Same with Scofield: he only put notes below the KJV and made a study Bible, such as those I'm positive you own. Sproul's Reformation Study Bible, perhaps?

Neither Scofield nor Bullinger "published their own version of the Bible." Your laziness and ignorance never cease to astound but I'm out of here. My hand is getting calloused from constantly having to factually spank the two of you.

I own and studied out of "The New Scofield Reference" Bible for years, which he edited and had published by New York - Oxford University Press.

I know nothing about Bullinger, other than Scofield considered him to be ultradispensational and opposed his radical views.

If you want to see the literary products and Biblical Commentary of J.N. Darby, visit this site for Stem Publishing.

 

[tetelestai]

Coming off Ignore for a second.

It's kinda funny how you and GM keep telling everyone how you have Nang and me on ignore, but then you guys keep replying to our posts.

When you put someone on ignore, why do you feel the need to tell the person, and everyone else, that you put someone on ignore. Isn't that the opposite of ignore?

IMO, I think you tell everyone you put someone on ignore because it makes you feel self-righteous.

 

[john w]

You know....we have this great thing called google....

Irenaeus Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them. In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote: “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation. http://beginningandend.com/what-did-ancient-church-fathers-believe-about-the-rapture/​

Yes, Daz of G, he spams this "no one" stumper often. "I'm not a smart man, Craigie," but even I know, not to be as moronic as you, to assert an all inclusive "no one" in any one of my arguments.

"Nobody but Dispensationalists believe in the rapture."-Craigie

Made up.Many "non dispies" do. And, it's quite irrelevant.

 

[Nang]

Yes, and if you use it correctly you will see that Irenaeus never taught a rapture.

He mentions Chiliasm (literal millennial belief of 1000 earthly kingdom) which was denounced as heresy by the wording used in the Nicene Creed, and he describes believers being resurrected to escape the final destruction by fire of this earth and the final elimination of all wicked creatures on the last Day of the Lord's 2nd Advent.

The "rapture" is an invented and wrong interpretation of the final bodily resurrection taught by the Apostle John in John 5:28-29.

IOW's a "rapture" is being read into the portion glorydaz quotes from, which is only a commentary on Iraneus' views, inserting conclusions that are not all direct quotes from the mouth of Iraneus himself.

:nono:

 

[glorydaz]

No trick, just the words of Paul

(Rom 12:1 KJV) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Do you know what the word "beseech" means?

Maybe a modern version will help you:

(Rom 12:1 NIV) Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.


What is Paul urging the brothers and sisters to do?

Your previous explanation was very bad. You claimed believers are a living sacrifice. You somehow failed to see that Paul was talking to people already saved.

No, you failed to understand what I said. I made it very clear he was talking to LIVING people....those who had been raised into LIFE. You seem hung up on the word "sacrifice"....trying to make it a priestly duty, I assume. Paul seems to see it as the fruit of the Spirit that is manifested through the body. Here, for instance.

Phil. 4:15-19KJV
Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's kinda funny how you and GM keep telling everyone how you have Nang and me on ignore, but then you guys keep replying to our posts.

When you put someone on ignore, why do you feel the need to tell the person, and everyone else, that you put someone on ignore. Isn't that the opposite of ignore?

IMO, I think you tell everyone you put someone on ignore because it makes you feel self-righteous.

Not quite! It makes GM feel like he's better than you, at least! Of
course, EVERYBODY is better than you! That's just my opinion but,
it's 100% accurate!

 

[glorydaz]

He mentions Chiliasm (literal millennial belief of 1000 earthly kingdom) which was denounced as heresy by the wording used in the Nicene Creed, and he describes believers being resurrected to escape the final destruction by fire of this earth and all wicked creatures on the last Day of the Lord's 2nd Advent.

The "rapture" is an invented and wrong interpretation of the final bodily resurrection taught by the Apostle John in John 5:28-29.

IOW's a "rapture" is being read into the portion glorydaz quotes from, which is only a commentary on Iraneus' views, inserting conclusions that are not all direct quotes from the mouth of Iraneus himself.

:nono:

I'm pretty sure quotes from Iraneus are his words. :nono:

If you want to stay on dry land, and not enter the ark then you can endure the flood.....or stay in Sodom....whichever the case may be. As for me.....I'm leaving on the first boat out if I'm still around to take it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm pretty sure quotes from Iraneus are his words. :nono:

If you want to stay on dry land, and not enter the ark then you can endure the flood.....or stay in Sodom....whichever the case may be. As for me.....I'm leaving on the first boat out if I'm still around to take it.

Amen!

 

[john w]

Joseph Mede (1586-1638)
In regard to the rapture, Mede writes:

"I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait his coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776)

Tet., Naggie: "Rapture" does not really mean "rapture," just as "land" does not really mean "land," and "nation" really means "church," and this guy above, he was being symbolic, when he says "to meet the Lord in the clouds," as "clouds" is used symbollically many places in the bible, uh, urr, you see....Hyperbole...Figurative...

 

[Nang]

You know....we have this great thing called google....

Irenaeus Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them. In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote: “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.” Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation. http://beginningandend.com/what-did-ancient-church-fathers-believe-about-the-rapture/​

Iraneus was prolific in his writings, but he was not the most accurate teacher or reliable source for facts, in the early church. For example, his admitted sources were often according to what we would call hear-say evidence, in these days. Iraneus taught that Jesus' ministry only lasted one year, and that He was 50 years old when He died on the cross.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I see "Cranky Nang" likes to bring up "John Henry Darby," as well!