I tend to agree with that and because I do, that is one point on which I've differed from a few MADs in the past. It looks to me that Paul had some degree of doubt at times about the genuineness of certain individuals' salvation but not even he could say with certainty whether they were or weren't. It has nothing whatsoever to do with being a fruit inspector...it's simply the reality of the nature of salvation by grace through FAITH, without works (2 Tim 2:19).
Yes. As a Prison Chaplain, I deal with convincted murderers and many more on a weekly basis. Some absolutely had salvific faith when they killed, raped, thieved, etc. Some didn't, by the confession of their own mouth when they then are saved and filled with the Spirit.
It's an individual issue. Some just had a proxy or environmental belief of some kind that wasn't faith. Others most certainly did. I don't see how anyone could question that it's a heart by heart situation that isn't about works.
I agree with this as well.
It might help the conversation, given the direction it's now taking, to establish something here and now: Paul never tells us that the "old man" is dead, eradicated or gone.
This is another issue of linguistics, since death (thanatos) isn't an eradication, extinction, elimination, or annihilation. But we must know what the old man is. The old man is the prosopon (the outer man). And that means we must know the difference between the prosopon and the hypostasis (substance, inner man).
I know that MADers don't like linguistics, but there are a handful of terms that have to be understood from Greek instead of being replaced by an English concept.
To believe that he is gone is perhaps the main error Christians can make with regard to our walk. He has been crucified and is to be reckoned as such but he is not gone. We are to reckon OURSELVES as dead to him and alive to God in Christ, but he is not dead.
Our hypostasis (inner man) is translated (moved to another location) and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We are raised with Him to walk in newness of life. The outer man remains, with physical life. We've reckoned it dead by faith, and we're dead to the sin in its members.
This is what I mean by ontology. Our very existence and being is translated to be IN Christ. Our inner man. Our hypostasis. The underlying substance of who we are. The outer man and its physical appearance is not who we ARE.
We put on Christ. His prosopon. Our hypostasis is literally translated into the prosopon of Christ, awaiting redemption of our mortal bodies (prosopon). We work out (which is NOT works unto salvation, but the conduct of our imputed righteousness) our salvation with fear and trembling, from the inner man to the outer man.
This is the power we've been given to become the sons of God. We die daily to the old outer man (prosopon) and live by the faith of the Son of God, in whom is our hypsotasis.
Us in Him, Him in us. This is the difference between being IN Christ and putting new wine (the Holy Spirit) into old wineskins (the prosopon). Our old man is not filled with the Spirit. Our old man is reckoned crucified by faith, and we're translated into the prosopon (person) of Christ.
It's necessary to utilize and define a few Greek words to be able understand the ontology of our existence and being IN Christ as a new creature. We're not just given another nature to have two. That's Dualism.
Just want to point that out to find out whether we're all on the same page here.
The difference is ontology. What happens is that even a faith salvation can revert to works soteriology if one doesn't understand ontology. And this is the difference between hope and faith.
It's the hypostasis (substance) of our faith that comes by hearing the hypostasis (substance) of God in His Rhema (Word). It's this substance of faith that translates us into the prosopon (person) of Christ and engrafts us to be partakers of God's divine substance.
But Threepio, do us a favor, seriously: lay off the terminology please. 'kay?
It's very difficult to ever understand the ontology of Paul's Gospel without a handful of Greek words, their definitions, and an exegetical explanation of the function and reality of their meanings.
It's only about a dozen words total, and every convicted felon with little education or scriptural knowledge quickly learns the meanings and the message changes their life dramatically.
I would think Believers would want to have some basic limited language stewardship to know what words and applications mean, since most of the differences in understanding and doctrine are related to linguistic misunderstanding.
I just try to reconcile it all, because we've been given the ministry of reconciliation.
A lack of understanding of Rhema (Word) and Logos (Word), and hypostasis (substance) and prosopon (appearance/person), and hamartia (sin) and thanatos (death) is why there's such widespread division and overall ignorance in the Body. It's a language thing.
Thanks for your congenial posts.
