Myths About Liberals And Liberalism

[ok doser]

I have shared my opinion.
The gist of the issue is not that of liberal or conservative, but rather whether we support God's view of man or whether we support man's view of man (humanism).

i went back and re-read your post and yes, i understand what you were getting at - interesting perspective

why on earth would leftists believe this: "The underlying idea is that humans are naturally good and given the proper stimulus humans can create a society that is inclusive of all persons."

is it an unsupportable optimism? ignorance of history? lack of intelligence? or an attempt to mask a power grab?

 

[MennoSota]

i went back and re-read your post and yes, i understand what you were getting at - interesting perspective

why on earth would leftists believe this: "The underlying idea is that humans are naturally good and given the proper stimulus humans can create a society that is inclusive of all persons."

is it an unsupportable optimism? ignorance of history? lack of intelligence? or an attempt to mask a power grab?

Conservatives believe it as well. They just substitute capitalism as the means by which humans create a paradise for all. But capitalism and socialism are both inventions of men by which they lift themselves up as gods.

 

[ok doser]

Conservatives believe it as well. They just substitute capitalism as the means by which humans create a paradise for all. But capitalism and socialism are both inventions of men by which they lift themselves up as gods.

no, i disagree - capitalism recognizes that the driving force is greed

 

[MennoSota]

no, i disagree - capitalism recognizes that the driving force is greed

Capitalism still functions as a humanistic tool in creating a "tower of babel" to the glory of man. The function is to glorify human effort.
This is why capitalism, left unchecked or unregulated results in oligarchy and essentially slave work forces. Such evil is no better than the totalitarianism of unchecked totalitarian regimes. One is socialist, the other is fascist. Both are under the umbrella of humanism. Neither creates a utopia because it ignores the fallen nature of man.

 

[Eeset]

Your intellect is only outstripped by your manners and the character they rest upon.

Calm down Nancy. Insulting others doesn't reflect well on you.

 

[ok doser]

Calm down Nancy. Insulting others doesn't reflect well on you.

Neither does whining about my manners :chuckle:

Or about you being a bully

What a nancyboy :chuckle:

 

[quip]

Well said, although I disagree with this part (and it may just be semantics).
But if a group does nothing to hinder or discourage or prevent any woman from having an abortion, then yes they are wanting abortions.

Preach that to the anti-contraception choir... who - oddly enough - consist primarily of the pro-life persuasion.

One question: How would an increase in abortions exactly serve liberals in any practical manner?

 

[The Horn]

Quip, your premise is false . Liberals do not want to increase the abortion rate . On the contrary , they want to PREVENT as many abortions as possible by preventing unwanted pregnancies .
Including me . The reason why liberals in America are opposed to making abortion illegal again here is because this will not work at all .
Laws against abortion are simply unenforceable . You can enforce laws against murdering a born person , or against rape, physical violence , and other crimes, but it's just not possible to stop pregnant women from having abortions . They will always find a way whether it's legal or not .
More abortions happen in countries where it is illegal than where it is legal . This is an established fact . The only way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies . But this is more easily said than done . Trying to stop abortion by making it illegal is like trying to stop a forest fire by pouring gasoline on it . Disastrously counterproductive .

 

[ok doser]

You can enforce laws against murdering a born person , or against rape, physical violence , and other crimes...

and you do this by punishing people who commit those crimes after they have committed (or attempted to commit) those crimes

the hope is that the punishment will act as a deterrent to future potential offenders

but it's just not possible to stop pregnant women from having abortions murdering their children

sure there is - same way as we hope to stop other people from murdering

 

[Town Heretic]

Calm down Nancy. Insulting others doesn't reflect well on you.

So it's like you posting in general. :think:

 

[The Horn]

and you do this by punishing people who commit those crimes after they have committed (or attempted to commit) those crimes

the hope is that the punishment will act as a deterrent to future potential offenders How many of the countless illegal abortions which too place before Roe were criminally prosecuted ? Only a tiny handful . You can practically count them on your hands . There was no way to enforce the law or stop women from having abortions . It will be no different if abortion becomes illegal again in America . People whop think they can "end abortion " by making it illegal are deluding themselves . Women will always find a way , and no one and nothing can stop them . It's not the same as murdering another person out of malice .





sure there is - same way as we hope to stop other people from murdering

 

[ok doser]

...

could you clean up the formatting?