My convictions of my faith in Christ.

[jamie]

Sorry I don't know what you're talking about.

Jesus saw the result of rebellion against the Roman authority so he cautioned his brethren against violence toward the Romans. It was futile and could easily get a person crucified, a horrible death he didn't wish on anyone.

The USA is not an occupied nation and we need to do all we can to keep it that way.

 

[marhig]

Jesus saw the result of rebellion against the Roman authority so he cautioned his brethren against violence toward the Romans. It was futile and could easily get a person crucified, a horrible death he didn't wish on anyone.

The USA is not an occupied nation and we need to do all we can to keep it that way.

Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?

 

[Right Divider]

I've said this before, if someone came into my home and attacked my children I would defend them. But I wouldn't join anything where I am trained to use violence and taught to kill. I don't believe that this is right before God. Jesus didn't teach us to do this, he taught us that we are to show love, mercy, kindness and forgiveness and bring God's word to others and love one another.

Untrained soldiers can't protect anyone very well.

Jesus allowed Himself to be abused during His first time here.
When He returns, He will do some significant violence of His own.

 

[marhig]

Untrained soldiers can't protect anyone very well.

Jesus allowed Himself to be abused during His first time here.
When He returns, He will do some significant violence of His own.

I don't think Jesus will be committing any violence at any time! You sound like the Jews who expected him to do that the first time around and he didn't!

 

[Right Divider]

I don't think Jesus will be committing any violence at any time!

I can see that you are completely unfamiliar with the Bible and wrath of God that will be coming to the world one day.

You sound like the Jews who expected him to do that the first time around and he didn't!

No, I simply believe what God has said in His Word.

Do a little Bible searching for the day of the LORD and His wrath.

 

[jamie]

Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?

If it were a lawful order to which I was subject, sure. I don't see justifiable homicide as contrary to God.

 

[eider]

I do have a powerful testimony and started to go to online groups just to help others know what I know, but I have mostly been met with those who attack me.

I understand..... Think of it this way.... if you were surrounded by folks loving you, patting you on the back, agreeing with you, praising you, you would not develop any further.

I think you might benefit from being surrounded by hatred, discord, aggression, contention and confrontation because each day that you suffer that you get..... stronger. Maybe, after a while you could get to see such folks as friends because of what they bring to you in strength?

I know it's hard. I am the very last person to actually be able to do it..... talk is easy.... but why not try it?

 

[God's Truth]

I understand..... Think of it this way.... if you were surrounded by folks loving you, patting you on the back, agreeing with you, praising you, you would not develop any further.

I think you might benefit from being surrounded by hatred, discord, aggression, contention and confrontation because each day that you suffer that you get..... stronger. Maybe, after a while you could get to see such folks as friends because of what they bring to you in strength?

I know it's hard. I am the very last person to actually be able to do it..... talk is easy.... but why not try it?

I have gained greatly regardless. However, it would have been great to learn, grow, and be strengthened by other good people building each other up in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

 

[eider]

There are things you can say from the Old Testament and it be true forever.

Well, that gives people the chance to 'cherry-pick' whatever they like to justify their agendas.
Can I give you an example? I opened the bible to Deuteronomy and snatched the first verses that I saw.
Now, let's say that all the commands in Deuteronomy are those of Jesus, and let's say that these verses ARE TRUE FOREVER.... OK?

These verses allow a husband to drag his wife outside and stone her to death, if she asks him to change faith. A misguided Christian could tell us that this is the wish of the Lord, but I know it is not, because Jesus gave a New Testament and ommitted this stuiff!

So for me, if it is not in the New Testament, it is OUT!

Here is that piece... there are many others:-
What would you think if a neighbouring husband did that to his wife because she found faith in another religion, and then quoted that to you?

Deuteronomy {13:6} If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; {13:7} [Namely,] of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; {13:8} Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: {13:9} But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. {13:10} And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {13:11} And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

 

[eider]

So you don't accept some part of the Bible as well? You'll fall with her.

Hello......
I wonder how you interpret the bible?

Do you have a Creed, Church or Denomination. That might help me understand your faith better....

 

[Right Divider]

Hello......
I wonder how you interpret the bible?

Do you have a Creed, Church or Denomination. That might help me understand your faith better....

No, I don't go by creeds or denominations.

But I accept all of the Bible, unlike Meshak who rejects what doesn't fit her incorrect ideas.

You seem to think highly of her, but you should not.

We don't criticize her for no reason. She is an unbeliever by all indications from her posts here on TOL.

 

[God's Truth]

Jamie, I'm not talking about the world. The world will take care of itself. I'm talking about those born of God who walk in the Spirit. I don't think I could pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even hurt anyone if commanded to do so.

Could you pick up a gun and shoot someone dead if you were commanded to by an officer over you?

Maybe you think it is sinful to catch and kill an animal to eat? Maybe you think it is sinful to have a cavity and have needles stuck in your mouth and teeth drilled on. Maybe you think it is sinful for a doctor to put you to sleep and cut you open while he removes things inside of you and sews you back up. Maybe you think it is sinful to learn how to use a gun to protect a loved one from someone wanting to severely hurt them by rape or death. How about soldiers protecting us from other countries who want to take over your country? Is it wrong when a trained police officer shoots someone who kidnapped your child?

 

[God's Truth]

No, I don't go by creeds or denominations.

But I accept all of the Bible, unlike Meshak who rejects what doesn't fit her incorrect ideas.

You seem to think highly of her, but you should not.

We don't criticize her for no reason. She is an unbeliever by all indications from her posts here on TOL.

You are like Meshak. Meshak likes the Books and not the letters of Paul, and you say the Books are not to us and we do not have to obey them, but you really like Paul.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus said if someone strikes us on our cheek, we are to turn the other also.

I just don't believe that it's right for God's people to use violence, we are to save lives through Christ, not take them.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

We are to turn our other cheek when someone strikes us so that we do not get overtaken by an evil man.

Jesus was telling us how to be safe, not how to keep the evil person safe.

You keep saying you would protect your loved ones. So tell me how you would do that if you cannot use deadly force if needed.

 

[God's Truth]

Well, that gives people the chance to 'cherry-pick' whatever they like to justify their agendas.
Can I give you an example? I opened the bible to Deuteronomy and snatched the first verses that I saw.
Now, let's say that all the commands in Deuteronomy are those of Jesus, and let's say that these verses ARE TRUE FOREVER.... OK?

These verses allow a husband to drag his wife outside and stone her to death, if she asks him to change faith. A misguided Christian could tell us that this is the wish of the Lord, but I know it is not, because Jesus gave a New Testament and ommitted this stuiff!

So for me, if it is not in the New Testament, it is OUT!

Here is that piece... there are many others:-
What would you think if a neighbouring husband did that to his wife because she found faith in another religion, and then quoted that to you?

Deuteronomy {13:6} If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; {13:7} [Namely,] of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; {13:8} Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: {13:9} But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. {13:10} And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. {13:11} And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

I explained to you that it would have to also be in the New Testament. However, even those things you quoted about stoning an adulterous spouse, it shows us how sinful it is to God to commit adultery.
All scripture is useful.

 

[eider]

I'm not throwing stones. I'm delivering truths, but just like a stone, thrown at something hard, they just bounce off her stony heart.

You think that you are..... delivering truths.
But I have not seen any writings of yours that have shown any love, understanding, empathy or patience.
Now.... how canI interpret that? :

 

[eider]

It sounds like you are well studied in many different religions.

...not really. I often need to revise in order to find what I seek. I know folks who have everything in their head.... instantly! I wish I could do that...

 

[God's Truth]

You think that you are..... delivering truths.
But I have not seen any writings of yours that have shown any love, understanding, empathy or patience.
Now.... how canI interpret that? :

Trusters beliefs are not even in the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

...not really. I often need to revise in order to find what I seek. I know folks who have everything in their head.... instantly! I wish I could do that...

I know what you mean. As for me, I just like talking about God and His Truth.

 

[eider]

Why did Jesus promote non-violence when he was flesh and blood?

Ah.... Jamie..... He wanted to promote pacifism, and I support that.
But there is a problem with that as well. During the Passover week (before the feast) Jesus visited the Temple three days running. On the first day he just looked around and left. On the second day he demonstrated quite violently, throwing over benches and tables, scattering Temple and other coinage everywhere, breaking open sacrificial offering cages, and then he picketed the Temple Courts so that folks could not pass through. He returned on the third day and (I believe) he picketed again, arguing with the authorities. Obviously that is not peaceful.
I try to be as objective as I can, but I do pay special attention to his 'live by the sword, die by the sword' words just after his arrest.

If you support (for instance) the military, or armed police, then I could not debate against you, yet I would prefer to walk to the pacifist side of any such debate.
Is that fair?