More garbage reporting from CBS!

[Crow]

I kind of thought you might have had to turn them in, taoist. I tried that myself once, but they didn't believe me, and on top of it, I didn't want to lose contact with my father, who was decent, but kind of oblivious, so I didn't push it.

In his defense it has to be said that when the worst of this was going on he was working a crappy job full time, and running a 70 acre farm, or rather trying to rescue it from the disrepair it had fallen into from 40 years of neglect. And my mother was so viciously hateful to him that he thought he was the target of her hostility, not us. It's amazing what can go on under your nose and not be evident. When my brother and I as adults told my father about what had gone on, he broke down and wept--he had no idea.

Yeah, your principal sounds like a real winner.

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by LightSon
There are exceptions to every rule.

Except that rule

Where do we draw the line which allows the state to come in and take kids away? Maybe homeshoolers should have to check in with a state guidence counselor one or twice a year, so they can check for bruises.

The problem I see in this is, it would then become a question of the state defining abuse. Directly for homeschoolers, it could be defined as a pupil not being up to a certain standard in one subject. I read a book (I let my sister borrow it, I'll have to get it back to share the title, it escapes me at this moment) about what child welfare protective services sometimes defines as "abuse". A couple of these were: The child not having a personal library and dirty dishes in the sink.

Unfortunatly there is no easy answer, but involving the state in all families' matters because of one evil parent would only worsen the sitiuation, imo.

 

[taoist]

Frugalmom,

I sent you a private PM addressing my feelings so as not to publicly humiliate a woman. If that was too polite for you, go ahead and post it. I'm anything but ashamed of my feelings on this. You are repugnant. That's naturally nasty, but it's no more than a description.

Your attitude tells me you'd rather see children abused than hear any criticism of home schooling. But I'm less aggravated now, so I'll withdraw my last private comment. It's only your willful, child-abuse-enabling ignorance that makes me sick. You personally, are just a tiny bit of a much bigger problem.

Thanks again for another example of why I'm glad no one calls me a christian. I've got enough issues without adding in guilt by association.

 

[frugalmom]

Originally posted by taoist
Frugalmom,

I sent you a private PM addressing my feelings so as not to publicly humiliate a woman. If that was too polite for you, go ahead and post it. I'm anything but ashamed of my feelings on this. You are repugnant. That's naturally nasty, but it's no more than a description.

Your attitude tells me you'd rather see children abused than hear any criticism of home schooling. But I'm less aggravated now, so I'll withdraw my last private comment. It's only your willful, child-abuse-enabling ignorance that makes me sick. You personally, are just a tiny bit of a much bigger problem.

Thanks again for another example of why I'm glad no one calls me a christian. I've got enough issues without adding in guilt by association.

Please do enroll yourself in social skills 101. You desperately need it.

 

[taoist]

Crow;
I tried that myself once, but they didn't believe me.

taoist;
Did it make you angry? I was furious about it. Kinda why I went off on Frugalmom too. I called the sheriff on her, twice, and even that didn't do any good.

But no more on this, let the demons rest.

 

[taoist]

Frugalmom;
Please do enroll yourself in social skills 101. You desperately need it.

taoist;
Please enrol yourself in the real world. The rest of us desperately need it.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by taoist
Crow;
I tried that myself once, but they didn't believe me.

taoist;
Did it make you angry? I was furious about it. Kinda why I went off on Frugalmom too. I called the sheriff on her, twice, and even that didn't do any good.

But no more on this, let the demons rest.

When they didn't believe me, it made me feel kind of like no one in the world gave a flying fool. Not long afterward, I turned on my mother and beat the crap out of her. The physical abuse stopped then, but the other kinds accellerated. I left home less than a year later--I was 15--y'all know that part of the story.

I didn't start to really deal with the anger until years later. First order of business is survive, second order is joust with the demons. The jousting with the demons is the real fight for survival--I damn near lost that one the first time around.

I've gotten my demons fairly well trained. Took a lot of years, but I can drag them out and kick them around at will--it just doesn't belong on a message board because they are some ugly little buggers.

 

[taoist]

Crow, PM me your MSN ID. Let's talk privately.

 

[Crow]

OK--hope I've got it set up right.

 

[taoist]

And run the messenger, too. It doesn't work too well otherwise.

 

[LightSon]

Originally posted by Nineveh
The problem I see in this is, it would then become a question of the state defining abuse. Directly for homeschoolers, it could be defined as a pupil not being up to a certain standard in one subject. I read a book (I let my sister borrow it, I'll have to get it back to share the title, it escapes me at this moment) about what child welfare protective services sometimes defines as "abuse". A couple of these were: The child not having a personal library and dirty dishes in the sink.

Unfortunatly there is no easy answer, but involving the state in all families' matters because of one evil parent would only worsen the sitiuation, imo.

I know! I know! There is no perfect solution here. For example, the state could arbitrarily rule that teaching children they are sinners and need Jesus is abuse, and remove them from my home. Or that teaching them that homosexual behavior is wrong is abuse. What to do?

I regard Romans 13 as crucial. In this passage God ordains civil government. I went round and round on this with Mr. Freak. If we don't submit to government authority, then we have anarchy. If government can't successfully deal with the neighbors when they shoot live ammunition through my front room window, then I have limited choices: shoot them, live at risk, or move. I like none of those options. Sure I would prefer to shoot them, but then we have the Hatfields and McCoys, Vigilantism at every turn can’t be a good solution.

I think the answer is for Christians to get into the game.
Proverbs 29:2
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

We have every right to play a Godly role in government. We are the salt and light; that is our job. Government is far from the perfect solution, but its better than anarchy.

Defining abuse can be tough, and discerning when abuse is occurring is probably more tough. We are just haggling over where the line should be drawn. What should the state have done if they had found out Crow’s mom was breaking her fingers? I think they should have removed her mom to the big house for a year. Sorry Crow. If I’m speaking out of turn, I’ll shut up.

 

[Nineveh]

LS,

I agree with what you are saying. We have to mourn for the children who are in the situation and balance that with the involvement of the state (which most of us know is not a good idea most of the time).

From what I understand from the article, the parents resisted child welfare workers. So the State was involved, just not effectively, nor soon enough. Obviously they got a tip from someone to go check out the house...

Perhaps someone will hit upon the perfect balance, one can always hope

 

[taoist]

Couple things, Lightson.

First of all, don't worry about homeschoolers being prevented from teaching religion. Think "catholic schools" for a second and you'll get my point. Yes, discerning when minor abuse is occurring is tough. But serious abuse sticks out like a sore thumb. You don't need to call in the FBI.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by LightSon
Defining abuse can be tough, and discerning when abuse is occurring is probably more tough. We are just haggling over where the line should be drawn. What should the state have done if they had found out Crow’s mom was breaking her fingers? I think they should have removed her mom to the big house for a year. Sorry Crow. If I’m speaking out of turn, I’ll shut up.

No, you're not speaking out of turn. This is just an issue that I have a hard time being objective about. As taoist pointed out, it's hard not to be especially sensitive to this stuff if you've been on the receiving end. I'm not going to get into his story--that's his personal business to tell or not to tell.

I don't particularly think that homeschooled kids are more likely to be abused, and in my case, telling the story at school more or less got the door slammed in my face--I guess it depends on the circumstance and hitting the right person at the right time. I can see taoist's point that he would be dead if he had been homeschooled--I have no doubt in my mind that he would have been killed if he hadn't had an avenue of escape.

I am reminded of what happened everytime I type. I drive people nuts in chatrooms because I'm so darn slow. It's something that just never goes away--you look at the scars, you remember. You type, you remember. You see people with their kids, you remember.

This is a subject I just can't be logical or dispassionate about. taoist isn't fooling about demons--not in the Freak sense, but in that the past does haunt you and it won't always rest when you want it too. You have to have been through it to understand.

 

[Poly]

The following are responses received by OCHEC from North Carolina and Texas, to the
CBS report "The Dark Side of Homeschooling." Part one aired Monday, Oct. 13th,
part two will air tonight, Oct. 14th.

PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- October 14, 2003HOMESCHOOLERS: SEND CBS NEWS BACK TO
THE BOOKS

(RALEIGH) -- An "Eye on America" segment in the October 13 edition of The CBS
Evening News suggested that a tragic murder-suicide in a rural county two years
ago was somehow evidence of the "dark side" of home-schooling. Correspondent
Vince Gonzales portrayed home education as a haven for potential abusers and
worse. In fact, the Warren family -- whose 14-year-old son killed two teen-aged
siblings and then himself in July 2001 -- had chosen to duck North Carolina's
homeschool law. CBS News could show no evidence that the Warrens were typical
of homeschoolers, or that this senseless tragedy would have been averted by
more educational regulations.

WHAT CBS OVERLOOKED

In North Carolina, homeschooling has grown from a few dozen families in 1984 to
nearly 29,000 this year. Considering there are well over 100,000 N.C. parents
and children in home education today, a two-year-old tragedy involving a single
family -- already in trouble -- is so rare and remarkable that it defies
logical connection.

There are other facts which CBS failed to mention; for example, there were
already numerous child protection laws and regulations on the books that state
agencies could have used to safeguard the Warren children. Social Services had
not only contacted the family on numerous occasions -- they had already removed
the children from the home for a time. In spite of all the laws and agencies in
place and involved, the system was still not able to prevent the deaths of
these children. And besides that, long before the tragedy occurred, the family
had consciously dropped out of compliance with the homeschool statute, and from
that point on they were simply truant from the public school system.

Given then a truant family, with a criminal record in another state, already
reported to Social Services by their neighbors and receiving regular contact
from them -- how many rules, how many systems, how much intervention does it
take to prevent an unpredictable and senseless tragedy?

If a family chooses to disregard the law entirely, how could more rules help?

And how can such a singular case guide policy toward 100,000 other citizens who
comply with the existing law?

THE REAL STORY

The real story is that homeschooling is a proven path to educational
achievement and preparation for adulthood and citizenship -- without government
funding, assistance, or direction. Our organization, North Carolinians for Home
Education, has a twenty-year history of service to the homeschool community.
Tens of thousands of parents and students have attended our conferences,
seminars, and other events, and we are privileged to know large numbers of
these families personally. And we know that first-hand observation confirms the
reports of numerous scholars and researchers -- these are strong, active, and
law-abiding families, producing a generation of bright and sociable graduates
-- well-equipped for college, career, or families of their own.

( CONTINUED )

The case highlighted by CBS News was not a matter of educational choice, but of
murder and suicide -- motive unknown -- and something far more serious than
whether students learn phonics, or which algebra book they use, or even whether
taught by their parents or by government-certified educators.

When one family has chosen to disregard the law, there is no logic to
tightening a regulatory vice on 29,000 North Carolina families that do play by
the rules.

And using old news to suggest that parents who desire the freedom to choose
their children's schooling arrangements are part of a sinister pattern of
abuse, neglect, and worse -- to coin a phrase, it simply doesn't add up. Maybe
CBS News should review their notes.

#####

FOLLOW UP CONTACTS:

CBS Evening News: evening@c...
Viewer comment lines: (212) 975-3247 or (212) 975-4321
"Eye On America" Story Date: October 13, 2003
Correspondent: Vince Gonzales
Producer: Barbara Pierce

North Carolinians for Home Education
(919) 790-1100 or http://nche.com
President Hal Young president@n...

CBS Evening News program sponsors
See the page of links at http://nche.com

 

[Elaine]

When is someone going to write about the dark side of public schooling?

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by Elaine
When is someone going to write about the dark side of public schooling?

When you deny that there is any dark side to public school, you convince yourself there is nothing to write about.

 

[Nineveh]

{Pink Floyd playing}

There is no dark side of fed education, really, it's all dark...

 

[taoist]

You know, Poly, this kind of media bashing gets old pretty quickly. While you're doing the laser-beam focus on the evils of CBS news, complete with a list of sponsors to payback with righteous wrath, don't you think you could at least try to be as fair as CBS?

From your original link ...

DIG DEEPER

Top 5 Reasons Why Parents Home School:

1. Can provide better education at home
2. Religious reasons
3. Poor learning environment at school
4. Family reasons
5. To develop character and morality

Courtesy of the U.S. Dept. of Ed.


FAQs:

What are some of the benefits of home schooling?

For many, the deepest and most abiding benefit of home schooling is the claiming (or reclaiming) of their family. Home schooling families spend incredible amounts of time together living, learning and playing. Many families like the flexibility home schooling provides both parents and children. Children can learn about things they are interested in at a time in their lives when they are ready to learn. No preconceived schedule forces them ahead or holds them back. Vacations and outings can be planned for times when the family is ready, and often when the crowds are smaller and the costs lower.


Are parents really qualified to teach their children?

Parents are their children's first and best teachers for most of their formative years. Only parents will put these specific children's needs first and search for the very best learning resources for their particular children. Children in a home schooling situation receive individualized, personal attention from someone who has a vested interest in their success - their parents. If a parent is not qualified to teach a particular subject that a child needs or wants to learn, they have many options: hire a tutor, barter for instruction, get together with other families to create a class, learn along with the child, or find a community, distance-learning or online class.

Courtesy of the Ore. Home Ed. Network

 

[aikido7]

Re: More garbage reporting from CBS!

Originally posted by Poly
The title of the story is "A dark side to homeschooling".
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/13/eveningnews/main577817.shtml

Of course they couldn't title it something like "Tragedy in a Small Town". They had to make referrence to the homeschooling as if IT were the cause of all this. Right! The parents were good. It was just the homeschooling that was bad and caused this tragedy.

And their insinuation that parents want to "homeschool" in order to keep people from seeing bruises. After all, we all know that's why we really homeschool. I mean what other reasons would there be other than wanting to beat and abuse your kids, right? :doh: :nono:

Anyone who uses basic reading skills, common sense and critical thinking skills would agree with you! There's probably a liberal agenda here....