We are not Jesus. Jesus is the judge.
Mods, why was The Barbarian banned?
- Thread starter Kdall
- Start date
We are not Jesus. Jesus is the judge.
"You only have to floss the teeth you want to keep"
Right, but I was responding to your remarks about Jesus. You said he didn't whip anyone (arguable as he was wielding one with the money changers at the temple) and that suggested a nonviolence that doesn't run hand in glove with a number of things we know from scripture, including the notion of that day. And so my remark to you. It had nothing to do with who we are and everything to do with the problem of painting Christ as nonviolent unless you think that judgment day ends with, "Nah, I was just kidding, you can all come in this great big ol gate."
Jesus commands us to love your enemy. He does not endorse our violent behavior. We are not godly or righteous like Jesus. There is no comparison.
If your experience on TOL has damaged your faith in Christianity, then I don't believe that you were adequately catechised in the first place. You simply haven't understood Catholic teaching.
1. We live in a postlapsarian world. We live in a wounded and sinful world because of the sin of Adam. You seem almost surprised, scandalized at the fact that human beings, even Christians, are sinful and fall short of gospel perfection. It's as though you walked into a hospital and were scandalized and surprised, even given the presence of doctors, that there were people who were seriously sick.
2. If your problem is with the behavior of Christians in particular, then I will tell you that it is impossible to live out gospel perfection without charity, i.e., the presence of the Holy Ghost in the heart of the believer (which is obtained, let us note, through the sacraments).
It is no wonder that the Scriptures tell us that few are to be saved. What is wonderful about this saying is, not that only a few are to be saved, but that even a few are to be saved.
Why should we expect the protestants to measure up to gospel perfection? They do not have the sacraments of the Church. Why should you expect even Catholics to measure up? Humanity is fallen. We are wounded. You are disappointed because you are trying to measure the recovery of sick men in seconds, minutes, days and years. This is the entire point of Purgatory: it could take millenia or aeons. It could take until the end of time.
The wickedness of men scandalizes you and "turns you off," so to speak, to Christianity. I tell you that this very thing is compelling evidence for Christianity (at least in a very general way). Every single instance of human wickedness testifies to the fallenness of humanity and the need for a Savior.
3. If your objection lies against Christian doctrine, then I'll answer you:
A. That you have not encountered it in the postings of the protestants. In fact, you were supposed to have known this already, weren't you? This was the point of the Council of Trent.
B. That if you disagree with some point of authentically Catholic doctrine/teaching, then those doctrines have been defended and explained by most learned Catholic doctors and teachers. Have you consulted them? If you have, did you understand them?
It's easy to throw up your hands in despair. It's another thing to do the necessary work yourself.
4. And if TOL so shakes your faith, then why insist on continuing to use it? You should be praying and studying more diligently.
Christianity isn't good enough for Anna?
It was good enough for St. Augustine. It was good enough for St. Thomas Aquinas. It was good enough for St. Bonaventure. It was good enough for St. Anselm of Canturbery. Need I go on?
Seriously. Who are you in comparison to them?
Have some humility.
At any rate, consult my signature.
Less time with TOL. More time with Jesus and Mary.
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If you don't align with the Theology of the Management then you are in the enemy camp.
You're in the camp of your enemy.
Why do you think they would treat you fairly?
I'm here because discussing things with people who agree with me seems like a waste of time.
You're in the camp of your enemy.
Why do you think they would treat you fairly?
I'm here because discussing things with people who agree with me seems like a waste of time.
he, he, he
Did you know that the toothbrush was invented in West Virginia? Anywhere else it would have been called a "teethbrush".
Quetzal
New member
People are challenged in different ways. My faith was rocked as well and in a rather unorthodox way.
Whatever is rocked one way, of necessity shall be rocked back the other way.
Equilibrium is sought.
The swing between Apollonian ethos and Dionysian indulgence seems to occur like waves of the sea throughout history.
I have reached an age wherein Ecclesiasticus makes sense to me.
The difference between inertia and equilibrium is quite small....
Do you think he loved the money changers he drove from the temple? I do, but he didn't do it non-violently.
Well, he isn't extolling us to go and put on literal armor or settle our differences in a ring, but there's no question that he threatens violence, like when he said it would be better for you to have a weight around your neck, dropped into the sea than to delay any child coming to him. And I don't think there's any question that if you let someone murder a busload of children when there was a gun lying on the ground at your feet that you'd have done evil, not good, by abstaining from a violent act.
God is also just and merciful as/purely in a manner we cannot be. Should we then forgo any attempt at either mercy or justice?
Which is my way of saying that "God is perfect" as an answer isn't really one.
He did not whip people. This is the point I am making.
Indeed! Of importance is why He did it.
:up:
true. Jesus mado a scourge of small chords,a whip of sorts, He turned over tables and drove the animals and changers out -
Jesus knew if He walked up to them peacefully and told them to stop, they likely would not hear Him -
it never says he whipped a person. he likely thrashed som large animals to get them in a frenzy. He verbally thrashed the people responsible.
under today's laws it would be peace disturbance, property damage, trespassing, possibly assault etc. but personally i see no violence, and as an officer at the scene i may not make the charge of physical assault on persons.
basically, i'm saying Jesus did not strike a man -
Wonderful response TH! Thank you.
You know, in the Anglican "Confession" We confess to (at least) two kinds of sin. One is the sin of "commission" and the other is the sin of "omission.
We confess that "we have done those things that we ought not to have done" and "we have left undone those things that we ought to have done".
I believe Our Dear Lord is holding us to the mark on both counts?
alwight
New member
Now look what you've gone and done, it's their ball and they took it away. I'm sure Barbarian has no problem with that.
Getting banned occasionally for nothing very much is an occupational hazard here, if you're not a fundie, and probably a rather good sign that you're doing something right.
The TOL seal of disapproval. :first:
Then again I've been here a while now and only banned once, must try harder? :doh:
And I'm noting that he overturned tables and had a whip in his hand, that judgment day also is not for the feint of heart and I'm suggesting you have too narrow a picture of Christ, who loved the men he still drove from the temple.
On some level you understand that, which is why you continue to leave my illustration of pacifism as an evil--the gun at your feet and a madman about to harm innocent children--alone.
:e4e:
While I am not a "Fundie" and think of myself as a
Party of One" still my faith and practice are based on some very foundational principles.
Yet, I was banned once for six months for using a naughty word twice! I did not whine or complain, just waited it out and did not make the same mistake again.
..."and here I am back in the middle again...."