Messiah came in the first century AD according to the Book of Daniel

beameup

New member
The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel to deliver a message from YHWH concerning Messiah

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:24-27

We have recorded three decrees by Persian Kings concerning permission for the Jews to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - (1)Cyrus (2)Darius (3)Artaxerxes Longimanus. So, calculating the prophecy brings us to the conclusion that Messiah will come in the first century AD.
Certainly the "wise men" from Persia knew this as they traveled to Jerusalem to "see the new King of Israel" (about 6 BC).
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Yes, exactly. There is more (detail) too, but you're off to a good start. Please visit the various threads at exclusive Christian theology about or against futurism and its eschatology.

I assume you also know the astronomical details about the maji visit as well?
 

Ben Masada

New member
The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel to deliver a message from YHWH concerning Messiah. Daniel 9:24-27

We have recorded three decrees by Persian Kings concerning permission for the Jews to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - (1)Cyrus (2)Darius (3)Artaxerxes Longimanus. So, calculating the prophecy brings us to the conclusion that Messiah will come in the first century AD. Certainly the "wise men" from Persia knew this as they traveled to Jerusalem to "see the new King of Israel" (about 6 BC).

The message to Daniel was not about Jesus because Jesus was not the Messiah and, as an individual, he could have never be the one. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Now, if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People, to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Jewish People.
 

Epoisses

New member
The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel to deliver a message from YHWH concerning Messiah

Daniel 9:24-27

We have recorded three decrees by Persian Kings concerning permission for the Jews to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - (1)Cyrus (2)Darius (3)Artaxerxes Longimanus. So, calculating the prophecy brings us to the conclusion that Messiah will come in the first century AD.
Certainly the "wise men" from Persia knew this as they traveled to Jerusalem to "see the new King of Israel" (about 6 BC).

The book of Daniel is sealed until the time of the end.

Daniel 9 is a prophecy about the reconstruction of Jerusalem and the 3rd temple.

The 'anointed prince' is most likely one of the two witnesses (anointed ones) who are killed in the midst of the final week.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The book of Daniel is sealed until the time of the end.

Daniel 9 is a prophecy about the reconstruction of Jerusalem and the 3rd temple.

The 'anointed prince' is most likely one of the two witnesses (anointed ones) who are killed in the midst of the final week.



He did deliver his people from the debt of sin.

The end of time was actually the end of the (that) age--the 490 years. This is why one of the 6 accomplishments of Messiah in Dan 9 is to 'confirm' prophecy; there is debate about the word sometimes translated as seal, but it should not be sealed as in hidden; rather sealed as in 'unambiguous confirmation'.

Which, of course, is why the NT sounds the way it does, unlike D'ism.
 

Epoisses

New member
He did deliver his people from the debt of sin.

The end of time was actually the end of the (that) age--the 490 years. This is why one of the 6 accomplishments of Messiah in Dan 9 is to 'confirm' prophecy; there is debate about the word sometimes translated as seal, but it should not be sealed as in hidden; rather sealed as in 'unambiguous confirmation'.

Which, of course, is why the NT sounds the way it does, unlike D'ism.

Chapters 1-6 are historical. 7-12 are future and all speak of wars in Israel and the reconstruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the antichrist.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nope, 8:13 is where 'rebellion that desolates' is first used and when 9 refers to it, it has become 'abomination.' Same thing. The 490 years took place ending in the sacrifice of Christ plus half a 'week' after to launch the mission of the church.

If you want to segment anything, it is that the last verse is a summary of the destruction of Jerusalem, and the prophecy does not see a generation there. The interesting thing historically is that the rebellion could have happened any time; a large one took place in 6 AD, and of course Barrabbas almost got piked for rebellion, and Paul was misidentified at least once as a rebel leader. The place was near boil the whole time.

One of the more controversial things Jesus did which is hardly ever mentioned is to concentrate disciple selection--and ministry--in Galilee where many rebels lived. My view is that he did that specifically to change them into missionaries instead of rebels. The gasping about Peter being from Galilee in the crucifixion setting is not that Galileans were hicks or 2nd rate, but known to be hatching overthrow, even of the temple system.
 

daqq

Well-known member
The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel to deliver a message from YHWH concerning Messiah

Daniel 9:24-27

We have recorded three decrees by Persian Kings concerning permission for the Jews to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - (1)Cyrus (2)Darius (3)Artaxerxes Longimanus. So, calculating the prophecy brings us to the conclusion that Messiah will come in the first century AD.
Certainly the "wise men" from Persia knew this as they traveled to Jerusalem to "see the new King of Israel" (about 6 BC).

The census of Quirinius no doubt occurred in 6-7 AD so what about the statement from Luke 2:2?

Luke 2:1-3 KJV
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2 ( And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria. )
3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
 

beameup

New member
The message to Daniel was not about Jesus because Jesus was not the Messiah and, as an individual, he could have never be the one. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) Now, if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People, to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel, the Jewish People.

Obviously you are unfamiliar with your own religion. Many Hebrew sages have declared that this passage is about The Messiah, including Rabbi Nahmanides. However, they state that Messiah never showed up.

Either you are misleading us, or you have been misled concerning your own religion.
 

beameup

New member
The census of Quirinius no doubt occurred in 6-7 AD so what about the statement from Luke 2:2?

Luke 2:1-3 KJV
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2 ( And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria. )
3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

King Herod the Great died in 4 BC, that's all you need to know. The "wise men" inquired of Herod and Herod ordered all male children under the age of 2 to be slaughtered (to protect his "throne").
 

beameup

New member
Nope, 8:13 is where 'rebellion that desolates' is first used and when 9 refers to it, it has become 'abomination.' Same thing. The 490 years took place ending in the sacrifice of Christ plus half a 'week' after to launch the mission of the church.

The Prophecy remains unfulfilled:
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness

The "Abomination of Desolation" was fresh in the mind of every Jew in the first century, as it occurred under the Greek Selucid ruler Antiochus Epiphanes in 167 BC. It's a matter of historical record. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation

However, their will be a "repeat" of the Abomination of the Most Holy Place (ie: Holy of Holies), when the Antichrist (False Messiah) presents himself, inside the Temple, as God to the Jewish people.
 

daqq

Well-known member
King Herod the Great died in 4 BC, that's all you need to know. The "wise men" inquired of Herod and Herod ordered all male children under the age of 2 to be slaughtered (to protect his "throne").

So your answer is that all I need to do is blind myself to historically attested facts and "just beleeve" what you say is true after blinding yourself to historically attested facts? Perhaps you yourself might need to know a whole lot more, eh?

It was not literal babies of two years and under that Herod took away, and they were not literally physically murdered but rather "adopted", that is, rounded up by Herod just before his death and sequestered in the hippodrome, ("hedged in" as Micah puts it in the Septuagint version). While it is certainly true that they were marked for death by Herod, Salome instead released them and let them go free upon the death of Herod and, as prophesied in Micah and Jeremiah, they returned to their brethren the sons of Israel, (the story is fully documented in Josephus). Once a new convert was immersed under the Teacher of Righteousness, (Yochanan the Immerser), for the first year after immersion the new convert was considered nothing more than a "babe", (proselyte), while undergoing a preliminary induction into the teachings and rules of the community. After the first year of preliminary induction, (as a proselyte), if so be that the convert was found teachable and having an acceptable spirit, the convert then underwent another year of training and induction, (as a first year inductee or apprentice). After that a second year of induction training into the community continued for another year. After three years, (possibly "three years and the half"), the convert could then become a full fledged member of the community of Israel and was given the oath. The age group for the first level proselyte was generally 19-20, (and up from there). That was entry level age of immersion, (19-20), which are the babes or proselytes, (in the milk of the Word as Paul often says). For a second year inductee or apprentice the earliest age was generally 20-21, and thus, the earliest age barrier for the third year apprentice was generally the age of 21-22. This is why the word used for the children in the Matthew account is not a word meaning infants or babies but rather manchild servants, (anywhere from pre-teen childhood to the entry level age of entry into the community and possibly the priesthood). "Two years and below" is thus only understood within the context of first century Jewish/Hebrew customs, (and particularly those laid forth in what we now find in the DSS from the Qumran Community). That is also likely why Herod was so urgent about the situation: he knew he was about to die, and wanted his kingdom left to his sons according to his, (most recent), will and testament; but suddenly there was someone else of ruling age now foretold in both the prophets, and by the arrival of the magi, and whoever it was he was at least a two year inductee, and about to become a full-fledged member of the community of Israel. The story you get from Matthew now rendered into English clearly shows that what is described would not have been any kind of threat whatsoever to either Herod or his sons which were about to take over his kingdom.

1QS 6:13-23
[1st level — Postulant] And every man from Israel who freely volunteers to join the Council of the Community, he shall be examined on his intelligence and his deeds by the man who is the overseer at the head of the Many; and if he is suited to the discipline, he will bring him into the Covenant that he may be converted to the truth and turn away from all perversity: he shall instruct him in all the ordinances of the Community.

[2nd level — First Year Novice] And when he later comes to present himself to the Many, they shall all consider his case, and according to whatever fate decrees, following the decision of the Many he shall either approach or depart. And when he approaches the Council of the Community, he shall not touch the pure food of the Many until he has been examined concerning his spirit and deeds, and until he has completed one full year. Also, let him not mingle his property with that of the Many.

[3rd level — 2nd Year Novice] Then when he has completed one year in the midst of the Community, the Many shall consider his case concerning his intelligence and deeds with regard to the Law, and if fate decrees that he approach the Company of the Community, following the decision of the priests and the majority of the members of their Covenant, his property and also his wages shall be handed over to the overseer of the revenues of the Many; but it shall be inscribed to his credit, and shall not be spent to the profit of the Many.

[4th level — Professed Member] He shall not touch the drink of the Many until he has completed a second year in the midst of the members of the Community. When he has completed the second year, they shall examine him. According to the decision of the Many, and if fate decrees that he approach the Community, he shall be regularly inscribed in his rank in the midst of his brethren in whatever concerns the Law and justice and purity and the mingling of his property; and he may give his opinion to the Community together with
his judgment.

http://www.metaphysicspirit.com/boo...d the Personages of Earliest Christianity.pdf
PDF Pages 37-38 (Book Pages 27-28 [Chapter 2])

Perhaps you need to know much more instead of ignoring historically attested facts, such as the census of Quirinius, which no doubt occurred when Archelaus was deposed, that is, circa 6-7AD, and likewise at the end of that same census Ananus ben Seth was installed by Quirinius as the Kohen Gadol, and at the same time the first uprising began under Judas the Galilean. All these historically attested facts entirely refute your assertion that Yeshua was born around 6BC some twelve years earlier. The reason most do not understand is because the virgin birth infancy narratives and allegories are just that: allegories, with supernal meanings. You've got a thousand miles to go but you will never get there by telling yourself you have already arrived. :)
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Epoisses

New member
Nope, 8:13 is where 'rebellion that desolates' is first used and when 9 refers to it, it has become 'abomination.' Same thing. The 490 years took place ending in the sacrifice of Christ plus half a 'week' after to launch the mission of the church.

If you want to segment anything, it is that the last verse is a summary of the destruction of Jerusalem, and the prophecy does not see a generation there. The interesting thing historically is that the rebellion could have happened any time; a large one took place in 6 AD, and of course Barrabbas almost got piked for rebellion, and Paul was misidentified at least once as a rebel leader. The place was near boil the whole time.

One of the more controversial things Jesus did which is hardly ever mentioned is to concentrate disciple selection--and ministry--in Galilee where many rebels lived. My view is that he did that specifically to change them into missionaries instead of rebels. The gasping about Peter being from Galilee in the crucifixion setting is not that Galileans were hicks or 2nd rate, but known to be hatching overthrow, even of the temple system.

You reject that the entire book of Daniel is sealed up until the time of the end. The four beasts of Daniel 7 are fallen angels. Satan himself is the lion/head of gold. He will appear as the false Messiah and conquer the world. After him other angels will appear until the beast is fully formed. They will claim to be ancient aliens or visitors from other worlds but each one will represent a religion that men worship today so they will all claim to be gods. After the world is conquered ten human leaders or horns will be given dominion and finally a little horn or man of sin will be given unlimited power. He will work together with Satan to force the mark of the beast on the whole world. These things are coming. Bible prophecy is not make believe. Enjoy your freedom while it lasts because it will all come to an end eventually.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The angel Gabriel was sent to Daniel to deliver a message from YHWH concerning Messiah

In 458 BCE Artaxerxes authorized Ezra and a large number of Jews to return to Jerusalem.

Gabriel had told Daniel, "Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks, the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times." (Daniel 9:25)

From Artaxerxes decree until Messiah the Prince was to be 483 years. 483 years minus 458 BCE brings us to 25 CE. There was no year zero so we must add one year giving 26 CE for the coming of Messiah.

Gabriel said, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."

Jesus' ministry was about three and one-half years so 26 CE plus three years gives 29 CE and another half year brings us to 30 CE.

In the year 30 CE the 15th of Nisan was on a Thursday. (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/SpringPhenom.php)

Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and laid in the tomb as the Sabbath began. A trumpet signaled the beginning of the holy day Sabbath.

Three days and three nights later a trumpet sounded marking the end of the Sabbath, Sunday began and Jesus was resurrected.​
 

Epoisses

New member
The commandments issued by Darius, Cyrus and Artaxerxes are historically irrelevant seeing the book of Daniel is sealed until the time of the end. One of the markers of the time of the end is that knowledge would be increased. The internet is the single biggest increase in knowledge the world has ever seen telling us that we are living in the time of the end.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Messiah came in the first century AD according to the Book of Daniel


Bs"d

Wrong.

Daniel says that A messiah will come in that time period.

Daniel 9 is speaking not about THE messiah, but about two messiahs, and non of 'm has anything to do with the Christian messiah.

For the finer details look HERE.
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

Wrong.

Daniel says that A messiah will come in that time period.

Daniel 9 is speaking not about THE messiah, but about two messiahs, and non of 'm has anything to do with the Christian messiah.

For the finer details look HERE.

You don't even know your own "religion".
I can list for you the quotes from your "sages" (like Nahmanides).
The truth (which has apparently been "hidden" from you) is that
(1)in the Hebrew, it is abundantly clear that it refers to THE MESSIAH, THE PRINCE.
(2)your "religion" had to be completely re-created beginning in the 2nd Century AD
because, prior to that, the cardinal doctrine was "without the shedding of blood,
there can be no remission of sins", and since there was no Temple, Mosaic Law had
to be abandoned.
(3)you are told that the "oral Torah" - the Talmud - is supreme above all, however,
the oldest copies of the Mishna-Talmud date from the 6th Century AD.
(4)the "rabbis" have forbidden you Jewish "sheep" (common folk) from even reading Daniel 9.

It's all smoke-and-mirrors bs to keep you from the truth.
 

beameup

New member
In 458 BCE Artaxerxes authorized Ezra and a large number of Jews to return to Jerusalem.

Gabriel had told Daniel, "Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks, the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times." (Daniel 9:25)​


From the Dead Sea Scrolls we have the "courses" of the Priests. Therefore we can calculate the precise year that Messiah was born, and it was 6 B.C. Priests and Rabbis didn't start their ministries until they were age 30. So with precision, we can determine that Jesus started his ministry in 23 A.D. Add 3 1/2 years and we have the Triumphal Entry (ie: Palm Sunday) when Jesus presented himself to the Nation of Israel as King Mashiach Nagid (riding on a donkey). The Triumphal Entry is exactly the 483rd year of Daniel's prophecy... to the very DAY.

Now, if you factor in the Jewish Feasts, you can nail-down the exact month when these events took place. Hint, Tabernacles would coincide with shepherds being outdoors with their sheep and Jerusalem being full of pilgrims. So, we have God "tabernacled" in a human body.​
 

beameup

New member
So you believe Jesus was executed on a Tuesday and resurrected on a Sunday?

That doesn't match the NT scriptures.

He was crucified on the day-of-preparation for Passover. He was the TRUE Passover lamb.

Passover: Nisan 14 (evening & morning)
Unleavened Bread: Nisan 15 (evening & morning)
First Fruits: on the morrow after the Sabbath following Unleavened Bread
 
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