Martin Luther Comments on Free Will

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Puppet said:
Believers are those who “truly believe in Christ” and who “endeavor to walk in all good conscience before him.”
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Believers are those who believe that Jesus has saved them from their sins.

We are called to live our lives before the Lord as sinners, Romans 7.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Believers are those who believe that Jesus has saved them from their sins.

We are called to live our lives before the Lord as sinners, Romans 7.
Click to expand...

Since when did you believe e Jesus Christ ? You teach that millions upon millions for whom Christ died are going to hell in their sins in unbelief !
 
Puppet

Puppet

BANNED
Banned
Robert Pate said:
Believers are those who believe that Jesus has saved them from their sins.

We are called to live our lives before the Lord as sinners, Romans 7.
Click to expand...


It is the elect who are effectually called, it is they were are justified, it is the justified who are adopted, sanctified, and kept by God’s sovereign power “through faith, unto salvation.”
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Dan P,

As a lost person under the wrath of God, I possessed no moral ability to participate in my own salvation. I was lost, in other words, I was

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loved darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, did not understand, did not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in my trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- could not understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

In other words, my inability to submit to God and do good was total (Romans 8:7-8; Ephesians 2:1; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6). My rebellion was wholly deserving of eternal punishment (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 5:29-30; 10:28; 13:49-50; 18:8-9; 25:46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).

For His own good purposes and glory, without considering anything He foresaw I had or may do (no foreseen personal merit), God took the initiative according to His eternal decree and plan for realization of His decree. God regeneratively replaced my "heart of stone" with "one of flesh" (Eze. 36:26) and I was simultaneously and irresistibly given the moral ability of belief in the Good News that was preached (i.e., the ordinary means of regeneration), an ability I did not possess beforehand. My ability to believe, previously lost to all Adam's progeny with his fall in the Garden, was such that I could not be inclined other than to believe. Indeed, as but and undeserving, repentant sinner, at the moment of my "re-birth" (regeneration) the greatest inclinations of my free will were the laying hold of the righteousness of Christ's works— His active and passive obedience, on my and all those on behalf of whom He came to actually (not possibly) redeem.

My new principle of life — my love for and trust of my Savior, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man in one Person — flows from my new birth, not vice versa. I believe this is clearly taught in John 3:3 wherein our Lord tells us we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again. If we cannot see the kingdom, we certainly cannot enter it; thus, regeneration precedes faith in some sort of logical manner. In regenerating my heart, the efficacious regenerative grace of the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, making me irresistibly able and thusly, inclined to obey in faith.

I do not forget that God does not look at my faith or knowledge as the ground of my justification but rather the ground of my justification is the finished work of Christ. Faith is the alone by which I, a sinner, cling to Christ and am now justified, solely by Christ's active and passive obedient works on my behalf and for others of whom Jesus came to render their salvation to actually deliver (not possibly deliver) them from the curse of the law, and from the power of sin.

In other words, my faith is the instrument, not the cause, which belongs to Christ alone, of my justification before God the Father.

My new life that came when the quickening power of the Holy Spirit transformed my heart did not eradicate sin’s presence from my life. Even as regenerated to a new life, after my heart was redirected towards the Savior, I still have great capacity for evil. While the power of sin to compel me to do evil is now broken, my ability to sin remains (Rom. 7:4–25), for I will never escape the noetic effects of sin until coming into my glory.

Therefore, I must do all that I can to put to death the lusts of my flesh. Most thankfully, my Lord is the author of my faith hence, He is also the finisher (Heb. 12:2) such that I will persevere to the very end and to my ultimate glory. Mine is an alien righteousness, one instilled from outside myself, that of Christ's (1 Corinthians 1:30). I always remember that regeneration was only the beginning of my walk, thus I am less surprised at my struggles with temptation and become more vigilant in mortifying my flesh.

for what He did for us,
AMR
Click to expand...

Where you Justified before God soley by Christ's active and passive obedience before you believed in Christ ? Even when you were dead in sin and unbelief ?
 
T

Truster

New member
Robert Pate said:
"You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Spirit".
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ACTUALLY I THINK HE RESISTS PATE....


....AND THAT GETS RIGHT UP YOUR NOSE.

Because the end of your teaching is glory for Pate. You long to be revered for your forced and counterfeit wisdom. When that doesn't happen the accusations and unrelated scriptures begin to fly.

I am blessed in the firm knowledge that the heirs of salvation will not, no way, be led astray by your nonsense.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Dan P,

As a lost person under the wrath of God, I possessed no moral ability to participate in my own salvation. I was lost, in other words, I was

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loved darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, did not understand, did not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in my trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- could not understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

In other words, my inability to submit to God and do good was total (Romans 8:7-8; Ephesians 2:1; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6). My rebellion was wholly deserving of eternal punishment (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 5:29-30; 10:28; 13:49-50; 18:8-9; 25:46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).

For His own good purposes and glory, without considering anything He foresaw I had or may do (no foreseen personal merit), God took the initiative according to His eternal decree and plan for realization of His decree. God regeneratively replaced my "heart of stone" with "one of flesh" (Eze. 36:26) and I was simultaneously and irresistibly given the moral ability of belief in the Good News that was preached (i.e., the ordinary means of regeneration), an ability I did not possess beforehand. My ability to believe, previously lost to all Adam's progeny with his fall in the Garden, was such that I could not be inclined other than to believe. Indeed, as but and undeserving, repentant sinner, at the moment of my "re-birth" (regeneration) the greatest inclinations of my free will were the laying hold of the righteousness of Christ's works— His active and passive obedience, on my and all those on behalf of whom He came to actually (not possibly) redeem.

My new principle of life — my love for and trust of my Savior, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man in one Person — flows from my new birth, not vice versa. I believe this is clearly taught in John 3:3 wherein our Lord tells us we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again. If we cannot see the kingdom, we certainly cannot enter it; thus, regeneration precedes faith in some sort of logical manner. In regenerating my heart, the efficacious regenerative grace of the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, making me irresistibly able and thusly, inclined to obey in faith.

I do not forget that God does not look at my faith or knowledge as the ground of my justification but rather the ground of my justification is the finished work of Christ. Faith is the alone by which I, a sinner, cling to Christ and am now justified, solely by Christ's active and passive obedient works on my behalf and for others of whom Jesus came to render their salvation to actually deliver (not possibly deliver) them from the curse of the law, and from the power of sin.

In other words, my faith is the instrument, not the cause, which belongs to Christ alone, of my justification before God the Father.

My new life that came when the quickening power of the Holy Spirit transformed my heart did not eradicate sin’s presence from my life. Even as regenerated to a new life, after my heart was redirected towards the Savior, I still have great capacity for evil. While the power of sin to compel me to do evil is now broken, my ability to sin remains (Rom. 7:4–25), for I will never escape the noetic effects of sin until coming into my glory.

Therefore, I must do all that I can to put to death the lusts of my flesh. Most thankfully, my Lord is the author of my faith hence, He is also the finisher (Heb. 12:2) such that I will persevere to the very end and to my ultimate glory. Mine is an alien righteousness, one instilled from outside myself, that of Christ's (1 Corinthians 1:30). I always remember that regeneration was only the beginning of my walk, thus I am less surprised at my struggles with temptation and become more vigilant in mortifying my flesh.

for what He did for us,
AMR
Click to expand...


Here is your problem.

If you really believed that you were justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ and you were trusting in him and in him alone then you would not need anything else.

But you do need that something else. You need religion, mainly the Calvinist religion.

So its Jesus Christ plus Calvinism.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Here is your problem.

If you really believed that you were justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ and you were trusting in him and in him alone then you would not need anything else.

But you do need that something else. You need religion, mainly the Calvinist religion.

So its Jesus Christ plus Calvinism.
Click to expand...

You teach Salvation by works, by what a person does !
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Dan P,

As a lost person under the wrath of God, I possessed no moral ability to participate in my own salvation. I was lost, in other words, I was

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loved darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, did not understand, did not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in my trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- could not understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

In other words, my inability to submit to God and do good was total (Romans 8:7-8; Ephesians 2:1; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6). My rebellion was wholly deserving of eternal punishment (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 5:29-30; 10:28; 13:49-50; 18:8-9; 25:46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).

At the age of fourteen, I had heard about a local Baptist tent revival hosted by one Rev. Walter St. Claire in Kingsport, Tennessee. I was very curious about what went on at these revivals, so I hitchhiked to the meetings each night and to see Rev. St. Claire bring down fire and brimstone among those in attendance. Each night when I got home I would open my Bible to learn more about what I had heard. The things I had heard were hard sayings, "faith alone", "grace alone", "propitiation". In the days of no internet, all I had was my Grandmother's huge family Bible, so I would turn its pages hoping to understand some small part of what I had heard earlier that evening.

On the fourth of the five nights Rev. St. Claire was in town I returned home, again studying what I had heard. On this night, what I was reading from that evening's sermon, "Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand..." (Matthew 26:45), seemed to jump off the page. Yes! I was like the sleeping disciples, who had become so "comfortable" with the physical Lord they had been walking with, that I did not grasp Who Jesus really was and why He was sent by God. Now no tears came, no crying out for mercy, but only the washing over me a sense of tremendous peace as I prayed for God to grant someone unworthy like me His saving grace. That regenerative moment in my life set me on a journey in my walk of faith that still continues.

On that night, for God's own good purposes and glory, without considering anything He foresaw I had or may do (no foreseen personal merit), God took the initiative according to His eternal decree and plan for realization of His decree. God regeneratively replaced my "heart of stone" with "one of flesh" (Eze. 36:26) and I was simultaneously and irresistibly given the moral ability of belief in the Good News that was preached (i.e., the ordinary means of regeneration), an ability I did not possess beforehand. My ability to believe, previously lost to all Adam's progeny with his fall in the Garden, was such that I could not be inclined other than to believe. Indeed, as but and undeserving, repentant sinner, at the moment of my "re-birth" (regeneration) the greatest inclinations of my free will were the laying hold of the righteousness of Christ's works— His active and passive obedience, on my and all those on behalf of whom He came to actually (not possibly) redeem.

My new principle of life — my love for and trust of my Savior, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man in one Person — flows from my new birth, not vice versa. I believe this is clearly taught in John 3:3 wherein our Lord tells us we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again. If we cannot see the kingdom, we certainly cannot enter it; thus, regeneration precedes its fruit—faith—in some sort of logical manner. In regenerating my heart, the efficacious regenerative grace of the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, making me irresistibly able and thusly, inclined to obey in faith.

I do not forget that God does not look at my faith or knowledge as the ground of my justification but rather the ground of my justification is the finished work of Christ. Faith is the alone by which I, a sinner, cling to Christ and am now justified, solely by Christ's active and passive obedient works on my behalf and for others of whom Jesus came to render their salvation to actually deliver (not possibly deliver) them from the curse of the law, and from the power of sin.

In other words, my faith is the instrument, not the cause, which belongs to Christ alone, of my justification before God the Father.

My new life that came when the quickening power of the Holy Spirit transformed my heart did not eradicate sin’s presence from my life. Even as regenerated to a new life, after my heart was redirected towards the Savior, I still have great capacity for evil. While the power of sin to compel me to do evil is now broken, my ability to sin remains (Rom. 7:4–25), for I will never escape the noetic effects of sin until coming into my glory.

Therefore, I must do all that I can to put to death the lusts of my flesh. Most thankfully, my Lord is the author of my faith hence, He is also the finisher (Heb. 12:2) such that I will persevere to the very end and to my ultimate glory. Mine is an alien righteousness, one instilled from outside myself, that of Christ's (1 Corinthians 1:30). I always remember that regeneration was only the beginning of my walk, thus I am less surprised at my struggles with temptation and become more vigilant in mortifying my flesh.

for what He did for us,
AMR
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say God regenerates people to believe. God saves and regenerates those who believe and obey.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

The people had to repent first before God would give them a new heart.

Not everyone has a deceitful heart. Not everyone is only accustomed to doing evil.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say God regenerates people to believe. God saves and regenerates those who believe and obey.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

The people had to repent first before God would give them a new heart.

Not everyone has a deceitful heart. Not everyone is only accustomed to doing evil.
Click to expand...

Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !
Click to expand...

I don't recall anyone on the Forum teaching that those in the flesh can please God.

If you are in the flesh that means that you have not been born again, John 3:6.

Peter wrote... Being born again, not of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable seed, by the word of God (The Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
I don't recall anyone on the Forum teaching that those in the flesh can please God.

If you are in the flesh that means that you have not been born again, John 3:6.

Peter wrote... Being born again, not of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable seed, by the word of God (The Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.
Click to expand...

Yes you teach it all the time. You say that the natural man in the flesh has the ability to believe on Christ, to put Faith in Christ, that pleases God Heb 11:6 !

You even go as far as to say all men have Faith, that pleases God as a natural attribute, so you teach that those in the flesh can please God, which is a lie !
 
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