ECT MADist thought for the day
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It was promised that Messiah would come, but many did not understand that He would come twice.
Once as the suffering servant, and again as the Lion of Judah.
The first coming did not fulfill all.
All is not fulfilled until that second coming as the Lion of Judah.
Elijah must also come again, as the prophesy says that he will come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, and then all will be restored.
The proud and wicked have not yet become stubble, burned up, and left with no root or branch.
The wicked still thrive to this day.
Malachi 4 KJV
(1) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
(2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
(3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
(4) Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
(5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
(6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
(1) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
(2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
(3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
(4) Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
(5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
(6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Right.
Zechariah was telling Israel (after the captivity ended) not to do as their ancestors did.
They were returning to the land from the captivity and the temple was being rebuilt, so obviously God had not completely turned His back on Israel.
In fact, God says that no matter how many times Israel does not meet His standards, He will never completely turn His back on them.
False.
Dispies absolutely believe that God dealt with them conditionally.
If God did not return to Israel, then why were they back in the land with the temple being rebuilt?
False.
It is replacement theologist that say the promises switched to the BOC.
Dispies believe that all promises made specifically to Israel will indeed happen to Israel.
The resurrection of the just and unjust is not conditional.
It will happen no matter how many just and unjust there are.
But the promise that Israel would be resurrected and living in the same promised land as their ancestors is to Israel alone.
The Gentile nations were never promised any specific land as Israel was.
You're missing the point.
Did Elijah literally come the first time?
You claim to take everything literally.
Thank you, brother.
:e4e:
Was John the baptist a literal person, or just some spiritual thought?
John the Baptist was not literally Elijah
Even John the Baptist said he wasn't Elijah
(John 1:21) They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
So I will ask you again:
Did Elijah literally come the first time?
Matthew 17 KJV
(10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
(12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
(13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
(10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
(12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
(13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Why won't you answer the question Tambora?
You said:
That means you believe Elijah came the first time
Since you believe Elijah came the first time (I agree with this), then once again:
Did Elijah literally come the first time?
I answered with words of Chirst.
Matthew 17 KJV
(10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
(12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
(13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
(10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
(12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
(13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Oh, you are wanting to know if John the baptist was a resurrected Elijah that lived in the OT times?
No, he wasn't.
You have to understand that one's name for the Hebrews was not just an identifier of one person from another, but a name represented the character or attributes of a person.
"Elijah" meant “my God is Jehovah”.
That fits John the baptist.
And Jesus confirms that John the baptist was indeed the Elijah (my God is Jehovah) of that time.
Fulfilled in a physical manner; not some spiritual thought or idea, but a very real physical manner.
John the Baptist came in 'the spirit and power of Elijah' therefore fulfilling a role for the prophecy concerning Elijah.
However, I believe that Elijah will yet come again at the time of the restoration of all things spoken by the prophets.
The literal, grammatical, historical interpretation of the scriptures does not do away with symbols, shadows, types and allegories altogether.
I can't find where the scriptures say why John was imprisoned, but we do know he was in Herod's custody. I assume that he was there because the religious leadership of Israel had him put there. They also rejected the one whom John was the herald for, thus rejecting the Kingdom of Heaven for Israel at that time. Had their hearts not been hardened and they had received the Kingdom, then things may have worked out differently for John's role in the Elijah prophecy.
I agree with the words of Christ.
However the words of Christ throw a monkey wrench into your claim that you take the Bible literally, and that prophecy is fulfilled literally.
No, I want to know if John the Baptist was the literal fulfillment of the Malachi scripture you gave?
Um....no
Here is what the Bible says about John the Baptist as Elijah:
(Luke 1:16-17) He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
As we see above, John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy in "spirit and power" of Elijah.
Jesus made it clear that Elijah did come, and that it was John the Baptist.
This proves that prophecies to Israel were not fulfilled literally, but at times they were fulfilled spiritually.
John the Baptist spiritually fulfilled the Elijah prophecy.
Yet dispensationalists claim that all the prophecies to Israel have to be fulfilled literally.
Mark 6 KJV
(17) For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
(18) For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.
(19) Therefore Herodias had a quarrel against him, and would have killed him; but she could not:
Correct.
This should tell you that other prophecies to Israel were fulfilled spiritually not literally.
You say "come again" even though Elijah didn't literally come the first time.
Just out of curiosity, when do you believe Elijah comes again? Does he come before the alleged rapture, or the alleged third coming of Christ?
Yet you guys go on and on about land
No, it was because Herod divorced his wife Phasaelis for Herodias. John the Baptist said it was wrong, so Herodias asked for John's head on a platter. Herod obliged her.
Yes, but a remnant did not reject them.
Perhaps, but the prophecy was fulfilled, and it wasn't fulfilled literally.
Well, at least there's that.
No, it doesn't.
An Elijah (my God is Jehovah) physically came.
Not fully, a portion is still pending.
Just as the first coming of Christ did not fully fulfill scriptures about Him, but left some pending.
An example:
Luke 4 KJV
(17) And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
(20) And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
(21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
(17) And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
(20) And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
(21) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Jesus left out the part in pink, which means a portion of it was still pending.
Isaiah 61 KJV
(1) The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
(2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
(1) The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
(2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Tet, it happened in a very real physical manner.
Just as this prophesy also happened in a very real physical manner.
Hosea 11 KJV
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
And so did the fulfillment.
Matthew 2 KJV
(14) When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
(14) When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
You are all hung up on literal "names", and you shouldn't be.
In both of the above cases, God's "son" came out of Egypt in a very real physical manner.
"You are all hung up on literal "names", and you shouldn't be."-Tambora
He is a deceiving con artist, bora of Tam.
"Says Johnny W the natural man.
(1 Cor 2:14 KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
...No, I'm asserting that literal minded people like you are unable to correctly understand spiritual truths because you follow literal minded men (Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Anderson, Bullinger, etc)."-Tet.
Deception, from this Preterist punk, and habitual liar.
The opposite of "spiritual" is not "literal", but "natural," loser. Tet
Is that like that cross that was "made by hands," Tet., that "man made," "literal" cross? That "un spiritual," literal cross?
Tet. deletes, besides 1 Tim. 2:2 KJV:
(1 Cor 2:14 KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
And replaces it with:
But the literal minded man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Tet., on record, asserts that the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ is natural.
So now it's "an" Elijah that physically came.
Luke 1 tells us that John the Baptist came "in the spirit and power" of Elijah.
No matter how much backpedaling you want to do, Elijah didn't literally come before Jesus came. Yet the prophecy was fulfilled.
Jesus later in His ministry made it clear that when the temple was destroyed, the other prophecies would be fulfilled.
Here is what you said:
I never said anything about "non-physical fulfillment". I said that not all the prophecies were fulfilled literally.
No matter how hard you try to spin it, the Malachi prophecy about Elijah was not fulfilled literally. It was fulfilled spiritually.
Does this mean you believe Jesus is synonymous to Israel?
This has nothing to do with your claim. Here is what you said:
Because the Pharisees expected to see them fulfilled in a physical/literal manner, it is why they couldn't see that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of Malachi. Nor could they see that Jesus was the Messiah.
Dispensationalists make the same mistakes the Pharisees made.
So many prophecies were fulfilled by Christ, but you and dispensationalists deny that they were fulfilled because they weren't literally fulfilled.
But there are still literal prophecies to be fulfilled.
Jesus said that Elijah would come first and restore all things. John the Baptist didn't do that. It is yet to be fulfilled.
Sure he did. He lived as a prophet and was caught up in a fiery chariot.
I think that he will come at a time which is near the second coming of Christ to the earth.
Certainly do and so do the scriptures.
It's there in the scriptures and though you have talked yourself out of believing it, you're not going to talk me out of believing what is plainly promised.
Thank you. I remember that now.
Yet, Peter still appeals to the rest in Acts 3 and Stephen appeals to the High Priest and the rest in Acts 7.
It will be.
Watch!
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