Right Divider
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:vomit:
ECT MAD implies both Jesus and Paul are liars.
- Thread starter dodge
- Start date
I apologize for my absence on this thread, I haven't received a single notification in the last few days for some reason, and they were pretty spotty before that. I think the TOL Android app is broken. I doubt I'll be able to catch up here, but I'll try...
musterion
Well-known member
We're dangerous bad boys but he just knows he can save us. That's the appeal. That's why he keeps on. NOT ONE PERSON who comes to TOL ever says, "You know, that preterism thing suddenly makes the Bible make sense!" But several have come to a dispie understanding, or had it improved. He hates that.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Ozzy sang about the preterist kingdom in "No More Tears"
musterion
Well-known member
"Crazy Train" is more apt here.
"....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth....The kingdom where there is no more death, tears, and sadness exists right now....We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now..""-cultist Tet. Craigie
Vs.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
"....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth....The kingdom where there is no more death, tears, and sadness exists right now....We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now..""-cultist Tet. Craigie
Vs.
Yes, but we have the youtube, saint john....and we can watch Andy 24/7.
musterion
Well-known member
"....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth....The kingdom where there is no more death, tears, and sadness exists right now....We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now..""-cultist Tet. Craigie
Vs.
THAT'S THE KINGDOM OF JESUS YOU'RE CRITICIZING THERE, JOHN! HAVE YOU NO FAITH?????
musterion
Well-known member
Nope. Not being sarcastic. That HAS to be the logical outworking of the preterist's position. If that was Him destroying Jews and Jerusalem in 70 AD, then who can say what isn't Him in the 2,000 years since? NO ONE CAN because if this really is His Kingdom, then He's indeed the King, ruling as He sees fit.
I thought you were mocking Tet using sarcasm...
Darby follower...You're in denial.
Look, Matilda, I'm about to give you "The Big Freeze."
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
God's Truth
New member
Dispensation =/= dispensing.
Dispensation (or rather, the Greek "oikonomia", which is where we get our word for "economy" from) literally means "house rules".
Oikos - house
Nomos - law or rules
Dispensing means to distribute or provide.
Actually, funnily enough, that little bit about "law" vs "grace" is a dispensational viewing of scripture, in that it recognizes the the rules changed, from salvation by works (the law) to salvation by grace (faith alone).
One of the things I've noticed myself doing recently is noting the key things that each person I'm in discussion with are saying and comparing it to what others say, and adjusting my arguments to each person's arguments, rather than just have the "us vs them" mentality.
Many times I'll note as I read and respond to posts that are three or more people each discussing a theology that is different than mine and everyone else's.
It's greatly helped me understand the differences between each person's arguments. (Btw, [MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION], that's another example of "knowing comes before understanding.)
Starting with an overview of the entire Bible helps too...
You have to OBEY God to receive understanding.
John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."
Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.
Proverbs 3:32 For the LORD detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.
Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.
See Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
John 8:30 While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. 31Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples
2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.
Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
musterion
Well-known member
Moses was God's administrator of the Law, the one through whom it was dispensed. John confirmed this (John 1:17). The Law was not of Moses. It was not from Moses. It came THROUGH Moses, but nonetheless to doubt Moses in that office was the same as doubting God.
Paul, likewise, is God's administrator of the dispensation of grace. Christ personally confirmed him. Grace did not come from Paul but it was revealed to us Gentiles in its unprecedented fullness THROUGH Paul.
Just as with Moses, to argue against Paul's administration to us on behalf of God is to argue against God Himself.
Rejecting Moses as God's chosen administrator = rebellion against God. It wasn't about Moses, it was about God.
Same with Paul...it isn't really about him. Rejecting or diminishing what God chose Paul to be and to do is rebellion against Him.
Paul, likewise, is God's administrator of the dispensation of grace. Christ personally confirmed him. Grace did not come from Paul but it was revealed to us Gentiles in its unprecedented fullness THROUGH Paul.
Just as with Moses, to argue against Paul's administration to us on behalf of God is to argue against God Himself.
Rejecting Moses as God's chosen administrator = rebellion against God. It wasn't about Moses, it was about God.
Same with Paul...it isn't really about him. Rejecting or diminishing what God chose Paul to be and to do is rebellion against Him.
[h=2]Pay Attention to Words that Indicate Time[/h]Just as important as knowing what happens in the Bible is knowing when.
Dispensationalists should not be date-setters, but we do acknowledge words, phrases, and verb tenses in the Bible that indicate time.
A good example is the book of Ephesians which is filled with such time indications. It talks about the foundation of the church, when it was laid, its future destiny, and how it differs from what God was doing in the past.
Paul uses words like "before" and "after", "until", "time past", "ages to come", "were", "are", and "but now".
For example, in Ephesians 3:5 Paul says there are "other ages" in the past that did not know things "now" revealed.
Paul was living in the "now". Old testament prophets were living in "other ages".
If you were to go back in time to the prophets of other ages (by turning a few pages), they would not know as the apostles and prophets contemporary to Paul knew.
The Bible describes change over time. This necessitates paying attention to when things were known. Times must be distinguished and separated.
You can read about the past or the future in the Bible, but it is dangerous to time travel and put yourself in another time. Too many things can go wrong, especially if you take something from another time and bring it back into the present.
Making every verse of the Bible speak to the present time does a great disservice to God's manifold wisdom, breaks the laws of Bible interpretation, and creates a Bible time paradox that can make your spiritual life disappear.
Notice the passage of time. When you plot these time elements out you will not have dates, but you will have what goes before and what comes after in the form of a Bible timeline.
We call these dispensational charts. They are important for knowing when you are reading about and will help you avoid the dangers of Bible time travel.
For God's grace,
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/15ed34e4cdfc6ad8
Dispensationalists should not be date-setters, but we do acknowledge words, phrases, and verb tenses in the Bible that indicate time.
A good example is the book of Ephesians which is filled with such time indications. It talks about the foundation of the church, when it was laid, its future destiny, and how it differs from what God was doing in the past.
Paul uses words like "before" and "after", "until", "time past", "ages to come", "were", "are", and "but now".
For example, in Ephesians 3:5 Paul says there are "other ages" in the past that did not know things "now" revealed.
Paul was living in the "now". Old testament prophets were living in "other ages".
If you were to go back in time to the prophets of other ages (by turning a few pages), they would not know as the apostles and prophets contemporary to Paul knew.
The Bible describes change over time. This necessitates paying attention to when things were known. Times must be distinguished and separated.
You can read about the past or the future in the Bible, but it is dangerous to time travel and put yourself in another time. Too many things can go wrong, especially if you take something from another time and bring it back into the present.
Making every verse of the Bible speak to the present time does a great disservice to God's manifold wisdom, breaks the laws of Bible interpretation, and creates a Bible time paradox that can make your spiritual life disappear.
Notice the passage of time. When you plot these time elements out you will not have dates, but you will have what goes before and what comes after in the form of a Bible timeline.
We call these dispensational charts. They are important for knowing when you are reading about and will help you avoid the dangers of Bible time travel.
For God's grace,
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/15ed34e4cdfc6ad8
God's Truth
New member
I understand what you are saying. However, I believe Jesus came with grace and a new covenant with new guidelines, and all the apostles including Paul taught it.