Mad but Im not pretrib

Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
I've been a mad since I read things that differ by Stam in 1994. But I've never been able to convince myself that a pretrib rapture is biblical. I've tried to find it. But 2 thessalonians seems to say the antichrist and the tribulation come first. I've been told we are like enoch but i think it's a stretch. I guess I'm post trib. Someone please help me see it.

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Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
Also in 1st thessalonians paul says we are to meet the lord in the air. Sound of a trumpet with the dead resurrecting first. Which in Revelations happens at the last trump. I realize im the body of christ not israel. I realize paul is my apostle as a gentile. I know Christs bride in revelations is israel. But i just cant find enough proof for the pretrib rapture. I know the endtimes is jacobs trouble which shouldnt have anything to do with me. I also cant accept rev 4.1 come up hither as a rapture because they are calling john up.
 
Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
I realize the 7 year tribulation is for israel. And the antichrist comes the jerusalems temple claiming he is christ. I dont see what earthly good it would profit me as a partaker in the mystery to have to be on earth at that time. Yet i still cant make up a pleasing doctrine just because i don't understand. I want to figure this out because ive had brothers in christ treat me like a heretic because i dont see the pretrib rapture in the bible. Its actually why i stopped fellowshipping at berean camps like i used too.
 
Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
I agree with all the other mid acts doctrines. I would love to stop worrying about this but its been a thorn in my side since i became a grace believer because i dread any mention of pretrib rapture, or prophecy vs mystery talk because i know its probably just going to bring up hard feelings if i voice my objections, speaking about actually physically fellowshipping with the like minded. And i sure dont want to cause any strife with fellow believers, but also dont want to hide my head in the sand either.
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
Swifty357 said:
I agree with all the other mid acts doctrines. I would love to stop worrying about this but its been a thorn in my side since i became a grace believer because i dread any mention of pretrib rapture, or prophecy vs mystery talk because i know its probably just going to bring up hard feelings if i voice my objections, speaking about actually physically fellowshipping with the like minded. And i sure dont want to cause any strife with fellow believers, but also dont want to hide my head in the sand either.
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lol, welcome to TOL,,,

I would describe myself as a post trib. pre. mill. D.'ist(saying this so you don't feel alone,lol) there seem to be a few others also.

Don't feel uncomfortable around the other D.'ist here(I don't),at first I did but none of them will bite(their nice people).

As for myself I just want to know whats real(without forcing things) and so I try to keep an open mind about what others say so that leaves me so if I hear something that makes sense then it's not so hard to change(I can grow).

Now I'll recant what I said(lol) I said I'm post trib.pre.mill D.'ist(a description as to the positions I hold concerning them) other than that I don't have a name that I live other than "Christian".

But I will say this "don't feel uncomfortable",,,the times a little friction did arise because of my,"position" it never exploded into chaos among the fellow dispies!
 
beameup

beameup

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In the same manner of the arrival of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, IMO will be the departure of the Holy Spirit, as He will take the sealed believers with Him when departing from the earth, thus leaving the earth in the same condition it was during the ministry of Jesus and prior to that.

So, the only remaining thing to consider is when this "departure" will occur. If God wants to "put things back like they were" during the ministry of Jesus, then that would be the pre-Pentecost condition. Considering that it would then resume as it was and then fulfill the final 70th Week of Daniel's Prophecy, that would make sense.

My vote would go with the Rapture coinciding with the Feast of Trumpets and at the blowing of the shofar "last trump", which is a loud long blast.
 
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Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
Wow im really surprised we are all post trib rapture bg of any weight elievers. I expected some midacts dispy people to jump all over the post trib rapture. I have been treated rough a few times in real life over it. With that being the only doctrine that i diagreed with anybody on in the grace movement, some people will cut fellowship ties over it. I have a few scofield study bibles the old kjv, and the scofield 3 nkjv. Ive scoured over scofields notes on the rapture trying to find some verses im missing but never found any strong pretrib arguments. I also have a companion bible and a couple thompson chains kjv, and niv and never found anythin
 
Swifty357

Swifty357

New member
Of any weight. I evened ordered a dvd and book combo called the great escape off jack van impe trying to see something i missed. I think pretrib arguments are really weak. Anytime i mention my concerns about it to my mom she gets horrified by my denial of pretrib. Like ive abandoned the faith. I have never been to a church where pretrib wasnt taught. And im 39 years old so ive been around a little bit. I told mom that my faith in Jesus sacrifice for me on the cross is secure. Dieing for my sins. But i dont think the Lord will be furious at me for not being pretrib. Ive tried hard to search the scriptures like a berean to see if these things are so. Trying to follow the Lord with the best doctrine i can understand from the bible.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Banned
Swifty357 said:
I guess I'm post trib.
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Jesus isn't a wife beater (Lk 21:36). :dizzy:

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D

Danoh

New member
Swifty357 said:
Wow im really surprised we are all post trib rapture bg of any weight elievers. I expected some midacts dispy people to jump all over the post trib rapture. I have been treated rough a few times in real life over it. With that being the only doctrine that i diagreed with anybody on in the grace movement, some people will cut fellowship ties over it. I have a few scofield study bibles the old kjv, and the scofield 3 nkjv. Ive scoured over scofields notes on the rapture trying to find some verses im missing but never found any strong pretrib arguments. I also have a companion bible and a couple thompson chains kjv, and niv and never found anythin
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Such people can be found within all movements. MAD is no exception, and neither is TOL.

But better to speak your mind.

You find out who is really who that much sooner.

Even opposition can sometimes result in some light you might not otherwise have seen, while reflecting on another's opposing view.

In this, to voice your view "can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth" 2 Cor. 13:8.
 
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Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
serpentdove said:
Ps 27:5 ESV :rapture:
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God offers protection to his faithful during the time of trouble. That doesn't mean he wisks them out of the car at 70mph so they can fly off a cliff. What a wonderful loving God we have who wisks all the faithful away so millions of others can die from falling planes and speeding cars that are turned into unguided missles!
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Swifty357 said:
I've been a mad since I read things that differ by Stam in 1994. But I've never been able to convince myself that a pretrib rapture is biblical. I've tried to find it. But 2 thessalonians seems to say the antichrist and the tribulation come first. I've been told we are like enoch but i think it's a stretch. I guess I'm post trib. Someone please help me see it.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using TheologyOnline mobile app
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I have to admit to some confusion, looking at your first five posts, it seems like you already see it.

Maybe it'll help to come at it from the other direction. Instead of us proving that the Body of Christ doesn't have to go through the Tribulation, have you ever attempted to prove that the Body of Christ DOES have to go through it?

What passage could you possibly use to make such an argument? Not 2 Thessalonians!

In chapter 2 when Paul is talking about the Antichrist, he clearly states that the whole thing will be restrained by the Holy Spirit until He is taken out of the way AND THEN the Antichrist will be revealed...

2 Thessalonians 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.​

Further, Paul wrote the following in 1 Thessalonians...

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.​

How would a teaching that says we are going to have to pass through Israel's Tribulation (i.e. Jacob's trouble), be comforting?

In any case, we know that we are not of Israel, that much you see clearly. So don't look for proof that we DON'T have to go through Israel's Tribulation, look for proof that we do. You won't find any.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Epoisses said:
...What a wonderful loving God we have who wisks all the faithful away so millions of others can die from falling planes and speeding cars that are turned into unguided missles!
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They can repent. :idunno: We are his church. We have the victory now over: the world, the flesh and the devil (2 Co 5:7). :straight:
 
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