ECT Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

[bibleverse2]

Sorry, I don't see where salvation by grace through faith in Christ's Blood then becomes some new 'works-based' nonsense.

Initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). But other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

(See also post #6 above)

He is our Saviour, not us.

Amen.

For only Jesus Christ can save people from hell (John 14:6, John 3:36), by His sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Romans 3:25), and by the ability that He gives Christians to continue in the faith (Hebrews 12:2), to continue to do good works (John 15:5), to continue to repent from every sin that they commit (John 8:34-36), and to overcome to the end (Revelation 12:11), by their own choice. All NOSAS does is admit the fact that there is no assurance that every Christian will choose to do all of these things to the end.

OSAS ultimately negates free will.

We are sealed. His Holy Spirit sees to that.

That's right.

Ephesians 1:13-14, like Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, and 2 Corinthians 5:5, means that the measure of God's Holy Spirit which Christians have received now is like a down payment until their future redemption into physical immortality at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:20-21, Luke 24:39; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53). But this future redemption is not assured for every Christian, just as a down payment on a house does not always assure that the future purchase-in-full will take place, instead of it being cancelled for some reason, such as the sellers willfully ruining the house after receiving the down payment and before the purchase-in-full has taken place. For the Holy Spirit does not take away Christians' free will. So if they wrongly employ their free will to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), and to do something like committing apostasy, or engaging in some sin without repentance, or becoming utterly lazy without repentance, then they will ultimately lose their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 25:26,30; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

 

[Right Divider]

Initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

Oh the twisting of the scripture. You're certainly one of the great Bible mashers here on TOL.

There is NO such thing as "initial salvation" in the Bible.

But other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b).

Another term completely foreign to the scripture. You're either completely confused or a purposeful deceiver.

For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26).

So you are a follower of the twelve and not of Paul (as Paul follows Christ)?

Which tribe are you? James 1:1

And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Matthew and John are NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God as was Paul. You believe that you can earn what the Lord gives freely. Romans 3:24.

P.S. I know that you will disagree and not understand a word of this post.

 

[popsthebuilder1]

Oh the twisting of the scripture. You're certainly one of the great Bible mashers here on TOL.

There is NO such thing as "initial salvation" in the Bible.


Another term completely foreign to the scripture. You're either completely confused or a purposeful deceiver.


So you are a follower of the twelve and not of Paul (as Paul follows Christ)?

Which tribe are you? James 1:1


Matthew and John are NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God as was Paul. You believe that you can earn what the Lord gives freely. Romans 3:24.

P.S. I know that you will disagree and not understand a word of this post.

Don't you believe in sanctification?

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

 

[God's Truth]

So, you're saying God saves men by grace, through faith to put them back under the law? I don't buy that.

Not sure where you ever get that I preach the old law.

Jesus gave us a new law.

Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

Grace is that we only have to have faith in Jesus' blood cleaning us of the sins we repent of doing.

His Blood isn't about saving us and then throwing us to the dogs.

Not sure what you are talking about.

He saves us, washes us, cleanses us and comes to take up residence inside of us to live His Life through us.

When a person wants to be saved, they have to be sure they are going to do what Jesus says to do.


Luke 9:62 Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

He orders our steps. He keeps us on The Path of Life. He guides us. He directs us. He keeps us from failing. Jesus said that He has never lost a single one that His Father gave Him, except the Son of Perdition.

Jesus came first for those who were already saved. They were God's, but God says they have to go through Jesus to remain His.

John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Sorry, I don't see where salvation by grace through faith in Christ's Blood then becomes some new 'works-based' nonsense.

It's about obeying Jesus. It's about doing everything God says like a child and a parent.

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

He saves. He cleanses. He keeps us. He is our Saviour, not us. We don't have to DO anything to keep our salvation. We are sealed.

If a saved person is in God's hands, then they better keep obeying, or it could be a dreadful thing to be in God's hands:

Hebrews 10:31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

His Holy Spirit sees to that. I have faith in Him, not in my lowly flesh. Not in my 'obedience' or in my resolve. I have faith in The One Who lives in me, Alone. No one else. Nothing else. I'm saved by grace, not works.

One must not deceive themselves.
One must train themselves to do good.

Don't deceive yourself:

James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.

James 1:22 Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men


Train yourselves:


Luke 6:40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

1 Corinthians 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

1 Timothy 4:7, 8 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Titus 2:4 Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 12:11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

 

[bibleverse2]

There is NO such thing as "initial salvation" in the Bible.

Note that the ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation" for them to be true and supported by the Bible, just as, for example, the ideas of the unity of God and the Trinity do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the unity" and "the Trinity" for them to be true and supported by the Bible (John 10:30, John 1:1,14, Isaiah 45:5, Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4).

For in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), while other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is the salvation which Christians have now (Ephesians 2:5), in their mortal bodies, while ultimate salvation is the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5), and which is always drawing nearer (Romans 13:11), that salvation which Christians are still hoping for (1 Thessalonians 5:8, Romans 8:23-25, Mark 10:30), and which Jesus Christ will bring to obedient Christians at His future, Second Coming (Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 5:9), when He will resurrect (if dead) or change (if alive) their mortal physical bodies into immortal physical bodies just like the immortal physical body which Jesus obtained at His resurrection on the third day after His death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:11-14).

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they are actually alive, so initially saved people (that is, Christians) can know that they are actually saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). And just as an infant cannot "give back" his being born, or become unborn, so a born-again person cannot become un-born-again, or "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there is no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there is no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. For just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic, and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they are to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

So you are a follower of the twelve and not of Paul (as Paul follows Christ)?

I follow them all, for they all follow Christ (1 John 1:1-3).

Which tribe are you? James 1:1

Naphtali.

Regarding James 1:1, note that it is addressing "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14), people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

Just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

That is, all Jews in the Church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all Gentiles in the Church have been grafted by God into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted by God into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire Church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the Church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of Gentile Christians being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A Gentile Christian can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into by God, and he will receive an answer if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22) without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the Church, whether Jews (Acts 22:3) or Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Matthew and John are NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God as was Paul.

Of course they are (Matthew 26:28, John 1:16), for there is no other Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

You believe that you can earn what the Lord gives freely. Romans 3:24.

No, but ultimate justification does require works (James 2:24).

On their own, Christians are not good enough to earn their salvation (Romans 3:10). But if they continue to abide in Jesus Christ (John 15:4-6), they can become good enough to earn their ultimate salvation (Matthew 25:21, Romans 2:6-7, James 2:24, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9). For while Christians cannot do good apart from continuing to abide in Jesus (Romans 3:12, John 15:5b), if they do continue to abide in Him, they can do good (John 15:5, John 5:29, Philippians 2:12-13; 1 Timothy 6:18; 1 Peter 3:11; 3 John 1:11, Galatians 6:10, Ephesians 6:8, Hebrews 13:16, Luke 6:35).

Also, Jesus has made it possible for Christians not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23; 2 Corinthians 7:1), even when they are tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9a; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16). So they can become perfectly holy before God (2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 6:22, Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 4:7, Ephesians 4:24). And Jesus has made it possible for Christians to repent and confess their sins to God, and be completely forgiven, if they nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit a sin (1 John 1:9). They will lose their salvation ultimately only if they continue in a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

 

[Right Divider]

Note that the ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation" for them to be true and supported by the Bible, just as, for example, the ideas of the unity of God and the Trinity do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the unity" and "the Trinity" for them to be true and supported by the Bible (John 10:30, John 1:1,14, Isaiah 45:5, Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4).

For in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), while other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is the salvation which Christians have now (Ephesians 2:5), in their mortal bodies, while ultimate salvation is the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5), and which is always drawing nearer (Romans 13:11), that salvation which Christians are still hoping for (1 Thessalonians 5:8, Romans 8:23-25, Mark 10:30), and which Jesus Christ will bring to obedient Christians at His future, Second Coming (Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 5:9), when He will resurrect (if dead) or change (if alive) their mortal physical bodies into immortal physical bodies just like the immortal physical body which Jesus obtained at His resurrection on the third day after His death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:11-14).

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they are actually alive, so initially saved people (that is, Christians) can know that they are actually saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). And just as an infant cannot "give back" his being born, or become unborn, so a born-again person cannot become un-born-again, or "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there is no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there is no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. For just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic, and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they are to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

You are the ultimate Bible masher. But Bible mashing is pretty common is Churchianity today.

Over emphasizing similarities and ignoring differences.

I follow them all, for they all follow Christ (1 John 1:1-3).

The follow Christ is different ways that you ignore or can't understand.

Naphtali.

Regarding James 1:1, note that it is addressing "the twelve tribes" (James 1:1), which is the same as addressing people in the Church (James 5:14), people with faith in Jesus Christ (James 2:1, James 1:3) (that is, Christians), people who have been born again (James 1:18, cf. 1 Peter 1:23), who are waiting for Jesus to return (James 5:7).

So you're an Israelite and not a member of the body of Christ?

Good luck.

Just as the Gentile Ruth (a genetic forbear of Israel's Messiah: Matthew 1:5-16, Luke 3:23-32) could say to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16), so Gentiles in the Church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

Gentiles were always allows to join with Israel. That is NOT how the body of Christ works where there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek.

Ignoring the rest of your post as you just MASH things into a Bible smoothie that makes no sense at all.

 

[God's Truth]

Note that the ideas of initial salvation and ultimate salvation do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "initial salvation" and "ultimate salvation" for them to be true and supported by the Bible, just as, for example, the ideas of the unity of God and the Trinity do not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the unity" and "the Trinity" for them to be true and supported by the Bible (John 10:30, John 1:1,14, Isaiah 45:5, Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4).

There is no such thing as initial and ultimate salvation.

For in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9),

Grace is not, "You get saved just for believing that you don't have to obey."

The 'not of works' is not of the purification works the people used to have to do when they worked at cleaning themselves endlessly.

Grace is, "Repent and believe Jesus' blood cleans you."

Repenting of sins is something we are supposed to do to get saved, so that we get saved and not perish.

Jesus tells us how to make your heart one that gets saved. He tells us to become like little children---which is about getting ready to do whatever he tells us to do. He tells us to have a forgiving heart, and to repent of our sins. Jesus also explains what kind of heart to have and he says a heart that wants him more than anyone and anything, and a heart that never gives up.

while other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

A person has to do right to get saved, and to keep doing right after they get saved.

Also, in the Bible, the difference between initial salvation and ultimate salvation is that initial salvation is the salvation which Christians have now (Ephesians 2:5), in their mortal bodies, while ultimate salvation is the salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5), and which is always drawing nearer (Romans 13:11), that salvation which Christians are still hoping for (1 Thessalonians 5:8, Romans 8:23-25, Mark 10:30), and which Jesus Christ will bring to obedient Christians at His future, Second Coming (Hebrews 9:28, Hebrews 5:9), when He will resurrect (if dead) or change (if alive) their mortal physical bodies into immortal physical bodies just like the immortal physical body which Jesus obtained at His resurrection on the third day after His death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:11-14).

Now this is better, what you say here.
The 'initial' which you preach is false though, when you say 'to get salvation' requires belief that we just have to believe and make sure we don't do anything.

Another falsity is that when you preach 'initial' and 'ultimate' it is to take away getting saved and what all happens at that time.

What happens at that time is all the angels rejoice that you repented of your sins. What happens is that Jesus accepted you and made his home in your heart and seated you with him in heaven.
What happens is that you are back in and reconciled to God.

So then, when you say 'initial and ultimate', you take away from the first.

 

[God's Truth]

To those who keep preaching that this and that in the Bible is only to the Jews/Israel, and that Israel is only Jews:

Do you think that God is going to take a dna test on us before He calls one of us a Jew with special privileges?

How much 'Jew' do I have to have to be in the special group of people you are promoting?

 

[bibleverse2]

Right Divider said in post #26:

So you're an Israelite and not a member of the body of Christ?

Both, just as Paul is both (Romans 11:1b).

Right Divider said in post #26:

That is NOT how the body of Christ works where there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek.

Galatians 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Note that this cannot mean that there are no Christians who are Jews or Gentiles in any sense, for Christians remain either genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b). Similarly, Galatians 3:28 does not mean that there are no Christians who are males or females, for we are still males or females with regard to our genitals and with regard to other matters (1 Timothy 2:11-12; 1 Corinthians 14:34-37; 1 Corinthians 11:4-16; 1 Peter 3:7a).

So Galatians 3:28 can only mean that there is no distinction between Jewish and Gentile Christians, or between male and female Christians, with regard to them being "one in Christ" (Galatians 3:28b) in the sense of them being one body in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6) without distinction with regard to their salvation (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Peter 3:7b).

 

[Right Divider]

Both, just as Paul is both (Romans 11:1b).

Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin, one of the southern tribes.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us.

That statement gives the false impression that we are equal with God.
Our salvation is as much a co-operative effort as any found between a Slave Master and a Slave or found between a King and a Serf.

 

[genuineoriginal]

All Christians, whether Jews or Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and should not keep it

You are doing what Paul said that God should forbid: you are making the Law void through faith.

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

The Law says "Do not murder", so you are telling us not to keep that commandment because it is in the Old Covenant Mosaic Law, meaning we should murder?
The Law says "Do not steal", so you are telling us not to keep that commandment because it is in the Old Covenant Mosaic Law, meaning we should steal?

No, we are always to do what is right and do what is righteous, whether it is found in a commandment in the Law or whether it is not found in any law.

 

[genuineoriginal]

the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8)

If your interpretation is right, then Paul is wrong and we shouldn't pay any attention to him, since Paul said:

Romans 3:3-4 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

Paul used the phrase "it is written" in these verses in Romans:
Romans 1:17
Romans 2:24
Romans 3:4
Romans 3:10
Romans 4:17
Romans 8:36
Romans 9:13
Romans 9:33
Romans 10:15
Romans 11:8
Romans 11:26
Romans 12:19
Romans 14:11
Romans 15:3
Romans 15:9

Paul's entire ministry until the end of his life in Rome, consisted of persuading people about Jesus using the words of the Old Testament.

Acts 28:23 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

 

[Right Divider]

If your interpretation is right, then Paul is wrong and we shouldn't pay any attention to him, since Paul said:

Romans 3:3-4 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

Paul used the phrase "it is written" in these verses in Romans:
Romans 1:17
Romans 2:24
Romans 3:4
Romans 3:10
Romans 4:17
Romans 8:36
Romans 9:13
Romans 9:33
Romans 10:15
Romans 11:8
Romans 11:26
Romans 12:19
Romans 14:11
Romans 15:3
Romans 15:9

Paul's entire ministry until the end of his life in Rome, consisted of persuading people about Jesus using the words of the Old Testament.

Acts 28:23 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

It entirely depends on WHO Paul was addressing.

The context of that passage in Acts 28 is this:

Act 28:17-31 KJV And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans. (18) Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me. (19) But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of. (20) For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain. (21) And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee. (22) But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. (23) And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. (24) And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. (25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, (26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: (27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. (29) And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. (30) And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, (31) Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

Paul was discussing ALL of those things with the JEWS.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Paul was discussing ALL of those things with the JEWS.

Good luck convincing Paul that his message is not for both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Romans 10:12 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.​

 

[Right Divider]

Good luck convincing Paul that his message is not for both the Jews and the Gentiles.

Romans 10:12 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.​

Once again you are a Bible hop-scotcher

Address the CONTEXT of the Acts 28 passage and quit playing your game of distraction and verse searching.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Address the CONTEXT of the Acts 28 passage and quit playing your game of distraction and verse searching.

You seem to be trying to find a gnat to strain out.

Are you going to deny that Paul used the Old Testament when teaching both Jews and Gentiles?

Paul used the phrase "it is written" in these verses in Romans:
Romans 1:17
Romans 2:24
Romans 3:4
Romans 3:10
Romans 4:17
Romans 8:36
Romans 9:13
Romans 9:33
Romans 10:15
Romans 11:8
Romans 11:26
Romans 12:19
Romans 14:11
Romans 15:3
Romans 15:9

Are you going to deny that Paul said that the entire Old Testament was profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and for instruction in righteousness?

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

Stop trying to find reasons for ignoring the scriptures that Paul said are for us.

 

[Right Divider]

You seem to be trying to find a gnat to strain out.

Are you going to deny that Paul used the Old Testament when teaching both Jews and Gentiles?

Are you going to deny that Paul said that the entire Old Testament was profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and for instruction in righteousness?

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

Stop trying to find reasons for ignoring the scriptures that Paul said are for us.

Lying about what I say will get you nowhere.

Once AGAIN, instead of shotgunning.... address what I said about the Acts 28 passage. We can discuss other scripture separately.

"FOR US"... all scripture is FOR US... but not all scripture it ABOUT US.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Lying about what I say will get you nowhere.

Then it is a good thing I did not lie about what you said.

"FOR US"... all scripture is FOR US... but not all scripture it ABOUT US.

You treat any scripture that is not "about us" as if it is not "for us", so you are making a distinction that is meaningless to how you interpret scripture.

Once AGAIN, instead of shotgunning.... address what I said about the Acts 28 passage. We can discuss other scripture separately.

Stop straining at gnats and treating Paul's use of the Law and the Prophets with a Jewish audience as if Paul was not using it to prove that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.
Stop trying to teach that the Jewish believers in Jesus were not Christians simply because they were not ignorant of the scriptures the way that the Gentiles Christians were.

 

[God's Truth]

It entirely depends on WHO Paul was addressing.

The context of that passage in Acts 28 is this:

Act 28:17-31 KJV And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans. (18) Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me. (19) But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of. (20) For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain. (21) And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee. (22) But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. (23) And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. (24) And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. (25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, (26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: (27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. (28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. (29) And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. (30) And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, (31) Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

Paul was discussing ALL of those things with the JEWS.

Jesus told the Jews who believed in him to do what the pharisees and teachers of the law said to do because they sat in Moses' seat. That means they enforced the old law which God gave to Moses.

The temple was still standing, so the pharisees and teachers of the law enforced the old law.

Jesus explains that it will not be standing one day.

It is still the one and only gospel for all, but a special warning to the Jews who would get prosecuted violently for believing in the new covenant that Jesus made.

If it is not the same gospel, then why in carnation would they drag believing Jews in jail and have them tortured and put to death?

The Jews were not to violate the old covenant laws about the temple, but they also were taught by Jesus the new law of faith and how HE JESUS purifies them.