Your enemy should be loved by you, fellow Israelite, countryman, or otherwise.
Love your enemies
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Your enemy should be loved by you, fellow Israelite, countryman, or otherwise.
I don’t either. But you and I have a major difference of opinion.
I think it is essential to separate Jesus’ authentic voice from the theology that was deliberately placed into his mouth decades after the Easter event.
.
A positive example that shows the wisdom of loving one’s enemies in an actual, historical setting always works. A “rebuke” never does fundamentally change one’s behavior.
In fact, the rebuke is a precursor for violence, revenge and war.
Parents with children know this too late. Political argument demonstrates the abject failure of this approach as well.
“Love your enemies.”
Jesus either said this or he didn’t.
We cannot have it both ways.
God does not intend for us to hate our enemies.
On the contrary, he commands us to love our enemies and to pray for those who persecute us.
No one in history had ever said that before.
No one.
This teaching is the most uniquely Christian teaching in all the Bible.
I don't even recognize an Easter event, but I recognize all of Jesus' words even after He rose from the dead.
People don’t talk after they are dead.
Jesus’ words after he was exalted were written by the gospel authors, decades after the crucifixion.
I believe in the resurrection. I just don’t believe it had anything to do with Jesus’ body.
The underlying meaning of the resurrection is the truth that after his death, Jesus’ followers were still convinced that his Power and Presence were still available to them.
They still “walked with Jesus” and “talked with Jesus.”
Just as we do today.
He, Jesus, physically, bodily, rose from the dead.
genuineoriginal
New member
We must still give the rebuke in order to provide them the chance to change their behavior.
They are responsible for whether they change their behavior after the rebuke.
Ezekiel 33:7-9 7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. 8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. |
According to scripture, failing to rebuke someone for their sin is hate.
genuineoriginal
New member
It appears that your faith is in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:13-14 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. |
People physically saw Jesus between the crucifixion and the ascension, which we are not able to do today.
1 Corinthians 15:3-7 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. |
Folllowing Jesus and having a personal relationship is an example of faith in the God revealed in Jesus.
“...Your FAITH has made you whole....”
--Mark 10:52
This truth was spoken LONG before Jesus was hanged on a cross.
.
People were SAID to have seen Jesus.
Careful readers of ancient history are aware that there was no such thing as objective journalism or history in those times.
The very idea would have been impossible to conceive of.
https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/D/bo5971512.html
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Everyone who thinks or writes about Jesus constructs a Jesus for him/herself.
Even the gospel writers did this.
John saw Jesus as the sinless, unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed for the world.
John was so committed to this vision that he asserted Jesus died on the Day of Preparation instead of on Passover as the other three writers asserted.
John also crafted an anti-Semitic Jesus because he wanted a Jesus who would denounce the Jews--simply because at that time the Jesus people were being kicked out of the synagogues.
Today’s believers have constructed a Jesus who is bigoted, full of revenge, anti-gay, anti-abortion and pro-war.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
I have constructed a Jesus based on his own teachings.
I have never arrogantly asserted that I am perfectly right about this.
We all look at reality through our own window.
We all see the world differently.
What do YOU see?
“Aren’t the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton… I could just lie here all day, and watch them drift by,” said Lucy. "If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud formations… What do you think you see, Linus?“
"Well, those clouds up there look like the map of the British Honduras on the Caribbean… That cloud up there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor… And that group of clouds over there gives me the impression of the stoning of Stephen… I can see the apostle Paul standing there to one side…"
"Uh huh… That’s very good… What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?"
"Well, I was going to say I saw a ducky and a horsie, but I changed my mind!”
I have never arrogantly asserted that I am perfectly right about this.
We all look at reality through our own window.
We all see the world differently.
What do YOU see?
“Aren’t the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton… I could just lie here all day, and watch them drift by,” said Lucy. "If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud formations… What do you think you see, Linus?“
"Well, those clouds up there look like the map of the British Honduras on the Caribbean… That cloud up there looks a little like the profile of Thomas Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor… And that group of clouds over there gives me the impression of the stoning of Stephen… I can see the apostle Paul standing there to one side…"
"Uh huh… That’s very good… What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?"
"Well, I was going to say I saw a ducky and a horsie, but I changed my mind!”
genuineoriginal
New member
Like this one?
Matthew 5:17-19 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. |
And yet you constantly complain about people choosing to do and teach the commandments that Jesus is talking about?
I see those passages as coming from the later community of believers. To me it reflects a controversy in the early Christian community over whether the Law was still binding on Christians.
If you read it carefully you might notice that the most trivial regulation [“one iota”] must be observed.
This passage, however, clearly cuts against the grain of Jesus’ passionate mission and his character.
It nullifies Jesus’relaxed sentiments against the Law--doing God’s will instead of following the letter.
It also speaks against his love ethic.
The one time in the New Testament that Jesus speaks about the Ten Commandments he only mentions those commandments that are foundational for all the world’s faiths.
Remember, there are three different versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible. Actually four, since Moses deliberately broke an early version.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
genuineoriginal
New member
If you believe that, then you don't know much about Jesus.
Your idea about Jesus having relaxed sentiments against the Law are very strange.
Matthew 5:27-29 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. |
The Pharisees tried to excuse looking at married women with lust by blaming it on their eyes, but Jesus said you can't even use that excuse to avoid being guilty.
Remember, I already corrected you on that by proving that there is only one version of the Ten Commandments, the original one.
Noted.
I value context and history over men’s theology.
It’s much more important for me to come to grips with the Jesus who has been buried beneath the many layers of human interpretation that have obscured him.
Theology is important--don’t get me wrong.
But it is a human meaning that is overlayed over real or metaphorsized events.
Bradley D
Well-known member
That is part of being a Christian yes. If you read the words of Jesus one will find much more.
Very good. It is good to know that you read the words of Jesus.