beloved57
Well-known member
I know what reconcile means. So according to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled ?
Limited atonement !
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Here is an Oxford definition for the word "reconciled:"
make (one account) consistent with another, especially by allowing for transactions begun but not yet completed.
God reconciled the world to Himself by the death of His Son. That made it possible for God to forgive sinners by removing the fixed curse of death that rested on all sinners. Without Jesus' death on the cross to atone for sins God could not have saved anyone. Jesus' death on the cross for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2 - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world) proves God's love, compassion, and mercy in offering forgiveness to all sinners for all sins but one according to His instructions to obtain salvation.)
Sinners are not automatically reconciled to God until they turn from their sins with their whole desire and seek Him for forgiveness and salvation from their sins.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
By God providing.
God initiated the transaction, something only God can do. Man now has to complete the transaction, something only man can do (as in, God can't do it for Him, or it would be unjust, a forgery), hence Paul telling the Corinthians, "be ye reconciled!" God provided reconciliation, a way to balance the account of man. But the condition for God to do so (something HE requires) is for man to accept the gift.
As John Piper put it:
| Illustration 2 – The Poor Laborer In the second illustration, picture yourself as a poor unskilled laborer who barely can scrape enough together to feed your wife and three children. One day you get in the mail a letter from a famous wealthy philanthropist. The letter says that if you will bring it to his lawyer, the lawyer will pay you a hundred thousand dollars—no strings attached. The reason he gives is simply that he enjoys giving to the poor. There is no indication why he sent the letter to you and not to another. You need only go pick up the money with the letter. So you follow his instructions and go. Entering the lawyer’s office, you hand him the letter. He says he has been expecting you, writes the check and bids you farewell. The question that these two stories raise is whether you, in either situation, could properly speak of “meriting” freedom or wealth? You did have to meet a condition: The sine qua non of freedom and wealth was to present the letters from the President and the philanthropist. But to use our definition of merit, was your presenting of the letters an act so valuable to the President or to the philanthropist that they were thus obligated to reward you? |
beloved57
Well-known member
How were they reconciled TO GOD according to Rom 5:10By God providing.
God initiated the transaction, something only God can do. Man now has to complete the transaction, something only man can do (as in, God can't do it for Him, or it would be unjust, a forgery), hence Paul telling the Corinthians, "be ye reconciled!" God provided reconciliation, a way to balance the account of man. But the condition for God to do so (something HE requires) is for man to accept the gift.
As John Piper put it:
Illustration 2 – The Poor Laborer
In the second illustration, picture yourself as a poor unskilled laborer who barely can scrape enough together to feed your wife and three children. One day you get in the mail a letter from a famous wealthy philanthropist. The letter says that if you will bring it to his lawyer, the lawyer will pay you a hundred thousand dollars—no strings attached. The reason he gives is simply that he enjoys giving to the poor.
There is no indication why he sent the letter to you and not to another. You need only go pick up the money with the letter. So you follow his instructions and go. Entering the lawyer’s office, you hand him the letter. He says he has been expecting you, writes the check and bids you farewell.
The question that these two stories raise is whether you, in either situation, could properly speak of “meriting” freedom or wealth? You did have to meet a condition: The sine qua non of freedom and wealth was to present the letters from the President and the philanthropist. But to use our definition of merit, was your presenting of the letters an act so valuable to the President or to the philanthropist that they were thus obligated to reward you?
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Yes, by the death of His Son. Like I said: BY GOD PROVIDING!
Just like God provided a ram caught in the thicket for Abraham, so too God provided the Lamb to be a sacrifice to reconcile the world.
He conditioned His saving of men off of their acceptance of the Lamb that was provided to atone for our sins.
If someone rejects the Lamb, they will not be saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
So a reconciled to God person is saved, not lost. Thats what the death of Christ does, it saved, reconciled to God. So its downright false to say "Nobody gets saved just because Jesus died for their sins."
Jesus was the Sacrifice slain for Abraham, as well as the Sacrifice that was slain for the whole nation of Israel and, in fact, the whole world.
Jesus was also the High Priest who offered the sacrifice for the sins of the whole nation.
Numbers 15:25
And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their ignorance:
But Jesus' sacrifice did not save the whole nation because Jesus' sacrifice alone does not save. For sinners to be saved they must come to Jesus seeking forgiveness for their own sins and plead for Him to save them and cleanse them on the basis of His sacrifice for them.
Romans 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Nobody gets saved without being born again, no matter that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world. God took care of the curse on all sinners so He could save sinners who come to Him for forgiveness and salvation, but He will not save anyone who refuses to turn to Him from sin for His forgiveness and salvation. God is not unjust. He will not turn one sinner away without hope while extending another sinner hope for reasons that are not equal and just.
Nope. Reconciled DOES NOT mean saved. It means reconciled.
Incorrect. The very verse you quote shows you to be incorrect:
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. - Romans 5:6-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-11&version=NKJV
The death of Christ reconciles. His LIFE is what saves, not HIs death.
No, b57, it isn't.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes it does mean saved. If one is reconciled to God they are in Gods favor and acceptance. The word itself testifies to that katallassō
o change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
- to reconcile (those who are at variance)
- return to favour with, be reconciled to one
- to receive one into favour
It also means to be changed.
No, it doesn't.
Chapter verse.
| Strong's g2644 - Lexical: καταλλάσσω - Transliteration: katallassó - Part of Speech: Verb - Phonetic Spelling: kat-al-las'-so - Definition: to change, exchange, reconcile. - Origin: From kata and allasso; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference. - Usage: reconcile. - Translated as (count): be reconciled (2), having been reconciled (1), having reconciled (1), reconciling (1), we were reconciled (1). |
Not sure where you're getting the "favor" bit from, but Strong's doesn't mention that at all.
The Bible speaks of God reconciling the world unto Himself and then, later, sinners reconciling themselves to God. Those two aspects of reconciliation are not the same.
2 Corinthians 5
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
beloved57
Well-known member
A reconciled person to God is saved from the penalty of their sins, and the wrath of God and thats by the death of Christ. How were they reconciled to God here in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When God reconciled the world unto Himself that was not the end of the story. You stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the fact that even though God has reconciled the world unto Himself sinners must still obey God's command to reconcile themselves to God if they intend on having their sins forgiven.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
NOT NECESSARILY. ONLY if he has placed his faith in Christ does God save him.
Wrong. As the very verse you are about to quote says, "We shall be saved by His.... death?" NO! "We shall be saved by His LIFE!!!"
I literally just got done telling you:
We are RECONCILED by His DEATH.
We are SAVED by His LIFE.
We are NOT SAVED by His DEATH.
We are NOT RECONCILED by his LIFE.
The verse both you and I quoted is EXPLICITLY CLEAR on this. However, YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE who is so biased by his beliefs that he can't even acknowledge what it says and has to ignore the second half of the verse!
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes a reconciled person is saved from the penalty of their sin. God doesnt charged a reconciled person with sin 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
To be reconciled to God denotes the non imputation of your sins. Now how were they reconciled to God according to Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Biblical reconciliation involves God reconciling the world unto Himself and sinners reconciling themselves to God. Individual reconciliation to God does not happen unless the sinner obeys God's command to "be ye reconciled to God."
"be ye reconciled to God." 2 Corinthians 5:20.
Quot
The Bible does not teach that God's hands are tied so that He cannot suffer the penalty for the sins of the whole world without being obligated to save every sinner in the world.
Who or what made David commit sin with Bathsheba?