God desires that all men would be saved, but He will not force sinners to turn to Him for forgiveness. Your statement is misleading. Of course God never intended Christ's death to atone for all sins of sinners. Jesus Himself said all sins and blasphemies would be forgiven except for the sin of blaspheming God in response to the call of the Holy Spirit to come to Jesus for forgiveness. The atonement was never intended to cover the sin of knowingly rejecting Jesus in the face of clear evidence presented by the Holy Spirit.
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Mark 3:28-30
How about actually just quoting the verses? It might be easier to see that they don't actually support what you just said:
John 10:15:
Spoiler
Context? Matthew 15:21-28.
Ephesians 5:25-27:
Spoiler
The context doesn't allow for your interpretation.
Paul is talking about those who are already in the Body of Christ, and how they should behave within marriage.
Hebrews.2:14:
Spoiler
Note: "Seed of Abraham"
Also, Hebrews was writeen to, you guessed it, the Hebrews. It was not written to the Body of Christ, nor was it written by Paul.
Genesis 3:15:
Spoiler
This is talking about Christ Himself, not Israel.
Titus.2:14:
Spoiler
Note: For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to.... ALL MEN!
More nonsense. Connecting the dots on two separate sheets of paper.
beloved57
Well-known member
Did Christ Really Die for the False, Harlot Church?
Since the Lord’s sacrifice is motivated by His love for those for whom He died (John 15:13; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 5:25), if He laid down His life for absolutely everybody, then he also loved and died for the false church, the whore, and the multitudes who fornicate with her in her corrupt worship (Rev. 17:1-2, 15)! But Ephesians 5:25 teaches that the Son of God “loved the church, and gave himself for it.” No mention is made here of a love of Christ or a death of Christ for that which is not the true, elect church which is sanctified by God’s cleansing Word (26) and presented spotless at the last day (27).
If the Lord Jesus loved and died for everyone head for head (which necessarily includes the false church), then He must have “loved the church [and the false church], and gave himself for [both of them].” Then husbands would be commanded, “love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church [and the false church]” (25). Thus husbands would have to love their wives even as Christ loves His bride and a harlot, the false church.
But Scripture teaches that our Saviour has one bride, the church of all ages (Rev. 21:2). He loved her and gave Himself for her alone. This—and not the theory that the Redeemer loved and died for everybody—is the truth of the cross and the biblical model for Christian husbands who are not to love and give themselves for harlots. Rev. Angus Stewart
Since the Lord’s sacrifice is motivated by His love for those for whom He died (John 15:13; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 5:25), if He laid down His life for absolutely everybody, then he also loved and died for the false church, the whore, and the multitudes who fornicate with her in her corrupt worship (Rev. 17:1-2, 15)! But Ephesians 5:25 teaches that the Son of God “loved the church, and gave himself for it.” No mention is made here of a love of Christ or a death of Christ for that which is not the true, elect church which is sanctified by God’s cleansing Word (26) and presented spotless at the last day (27).
If the Lord Jesus loved and died for everyone head for head (which necessarily includes the false church), then He must have “loved the church [and the false church], and gave himself for [both of them].” Then husbands would be commanded, “love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church [and the false church]” (25). Thus husbands would have to love their wives even as Christ loves His bride and a harlot, the false church.
But Scripture teaches that our Saviour has one bride, the church of all ages (Rev. 21:2). He loved her and gave Himself for her alone. This—and not the theory that the Redeemer loved and died for everybody—is the truth of the cross and the biblical model for Christian husbands who are not to love and give themselves for harlots. Rev. Angus Stewart
beloved57
Well-known member
With artcles from AS I will show how certain passages of scripture teach limited atonement
John 10 Teaches Particular Redemption
In John 10, Jesus teaches that He, the good shepherd, died for His sheep: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep” (11); “I lay down my life for the sheep” (15). Just as every earthly shepherd has his “own sheep” (3, 4), Christ refers to His “fold” or flock (16) as “my sheep” (14, 26, 27). Later, the Lord told some people that they were not His sheep and that this was the reason why they did not believe: “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep” (26).
The argument is simple: Jesus died for His sheep (11, 15), knowing exactly who they are (14, 26, 27); He told certain people that they were not His sheep (26); therefore, He did not die for them. The Lord also said that His sheep were given to Him by His Father (29). The Father gave the sheep to the Son in His eternal purpose of election so that in time He would die for them and gather them out of all nations (16). Since Christ died for His sheep (and some are not His sheep), and His sheep are the elect, Christ died for the elect alone.
John 10 Teaches Particular Redemption
In John 10, Jesus teaches that He, the good shepherd, died for His sheep: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep” (11); “I lay down my life for the sheep” (15). Just as every earthly shepherd has his “own sheep” (3, 4), Christ refers to His “fold” or flock (16) as “my sheep” (14, 26, 27). Later, the Lord told some people that they were not His sheep and that this was the reason why they did not believe: “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep” (26).
The argument is simple: Jesus died for His sheep (11, 15), knowing exactly who they are (14, 26, 27); He told certain people that they were not His sheep (26); therefore, He did not die for them. The Lord also said that His sheep were given to Him by His Father (29). The Father gave the sheep to the Son in His eternal purpose of election so that in time He would die for them and gather them out of all nations (16). Since Christ died for His sheep (and some are not His sheep), and His sheep are the elect, Christ died for the elect alone.
beloved57
Well-known member
John 17 Teaches Particular Redemption
In His high priestly prayer in John 17, Jesus states, “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine” (9). The “world” here is the world of the reprobate or non-elect for whom the incarnate Son of God does not pray, as opposed to the elect (“them which thou hast given me”).
If the Lord did not do the lesser thing (pray for the reprobate world), did He really do the greater thing (die for the reprobate world)? Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede. Furthermore, the Saviour prays on the basis of His finished work of redemption (Isa. 53:12; Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25-27; 9:24-26). Therefore, if He did not pray for the world, it is because He did not die for the world.
In John 17, Jesus is praying just hours before the cross and with a view to His sacrificial death, for He says, “Father, the hour is come” (1). Throughout John 17, Christ’s prayers and, therefore, His redeeming work are particular, only for the elect, those whom the Father gave Him (2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24). Our Lord’s prayers that the Father keep (11-16), sanctify (17-19), unite (20-23) and glorify (24-26) “as many as thou hast given him” (2) are powerfully answered, for we are granted “eternal life” (2-3).
Jesus says, “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified” (19). Christ’s sanctifying Himself is His consecrating and dedicating Himself to do the will of Him who sent Him. Our Lord especially set Himself apart as our willing sacrifice on the cross. This, He tells us, was “for their sakes,” for those whom the Father gave Him, the elect. Thus Christ’s prayers and sacrifice are not only particular—”for them which thou hast given me” (9)—but also exclusive, “not for the world” (9). By AS
In His high priestly prayer in John 17, Jesus states, “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine” (9). The “world” here is the world of the reprobate or non-elect for whom the incarnate Son of God does not pray, as opposed to the elect (“them which thou hast given me”).
If the Lord did not do the lesser thing (pray for the reprobate world), did He really do the greater thing (die for the reprobate world)? Intercession is one of the two main aspects of Christ’s priestly work. If Jesus did not pray for the world (one aspect of His priestly work), is it possible that He died for the world (the other aspect of His priestly work)? This would destroy the unity of Christ’s priestly office, for He would be dying for those for whom He did not (and does not) intercede. Furthermore, the Saviour prays on the basis of His finished work of redemption (Isa. 53:12; Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25-27; 9:24-26). Therefore, if He did not pray for the world, it is because He did not die for the world.
In John 17, Jesus is praying just hours before the cross and with a view to His sacrificial death, for He says, “Father, the hour is come” (1). Throughout John 17, Christ’s prayers and, therefore, His redeeming work are particular, only for the elect, those whom the Father gave Him (2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 24). Our Lord’s prayers that the Father keep (11-16), sanctify (17-19), unite (20-23) and glorify (24-26) “as many as thou hast given him” (2) are powerfully answered, for we are granted “eternal life” (2-3).
Jesus says, “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified” (19). Christ’s sanctifying Himself is His consecrating and dedicating Himself to do the will of Him who sent Him. Our Lord especially set Himself apart as our willing sacrifice on the cross. This, He tells us, was “for their sakes,” for those whom the Father gave Him, the elect. Thus Christ’s prayers and sacrifice are not only particular—”for them which thou hast given me” (9)—but also exclusive, “not for the world” (9). By AS
Although Jesus was made the propitiation for the sins of the whole world it is true that His atonement does not cover all sins. There is one sin that cannot be forgiven and Jesus' blood is of no avail to cover that sin.
Mark 3
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation
beloved57
Well-known member
Isaiah 53 Teaches Particular Redemption
Isaiah 53 is the greatest chapter in the Old Testament, and possibly in the whole Bible, on our Saviour’s substitutionary atonement. The “us” for whose sins Christ was “wounded” (4-6) are given specific names: “my people” (8), “his seed” (10), and the “many”—not all men head for head (11-12). They are the “pleasure of the Lord” who “prosper in his hand” (10). God never made the reprobate “prosper in his hand” and He was never pleased with them (Ps. 2:4-5; Prov. 3:32-34). They are not His “seed,” “people” and “pleasure,” so Jesus did not die for them.Those for whom Christ died “are healed” by “his stripes” (Isa. 53:5). It is not merely that they might be healed if they believe, but they really are healed. Those whose sins the Son bore are also justified: “my righteous servant [shall] justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities” (11). God’s elect “people” (8) are declared perfectly righteous for Christ bore our punishment (11). The reprobate are not justified, thus He did not atone for them. It is for the “many” whose sins He bore that the Saviour intercedes (12). Remember, Jesus said, “I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me” (John 17:9). The “many” for whom Christ suffered and for whom He prays are the elect, not the reprobate world.
In this way, Jesus is perfectly “satisfied” (Isa. 53:11). If some for whom He was “stricken” (8) and for whom He intercedes (12) are not healed (5) and justified (11) and do not “prosper in his hand” (10) and do not receive a share in His spoils (12), Christ would not be “satisfied” (11). If even one soul perishes for whom He died, Christ’s purpose is not fully realised, His atonement is not totally successful and He is dissatisfied. The notion that Jesus shed His precious blood for everybody head for head presents the cross as an abject failure with regard to most of those for whom He died and contradicts the Bible’s teaching that Christ is “satisfied” with the fruit of His death (11). Rev AS
Of course Christ died for the elect and of course He died for the non-elect who would have been elect if only God had seen in advance that they would have believed and received the Gospel message clearly delivered to them by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
beloved57
Well-known member
Ephesians 1 Teaches Particular Redemption by Rev AS
Ephesians 1:3 declares that we have been blessed “with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.” These blessings come to us “according as he [i.e., God] hath chosen us in him [i.e., Christ] before the foundation of the world” (4), that is, we receive all these blessings according to our eternal election (4) and predestination (5). Ephesians 1 enumerates some of our spiritual blessings: holiness (4), adoption (5), acceptance with God (6), redemption (7), the forgiveness of sins (7), the knowledge of God’s will (9), the sealing of the Holy Spirit (13) and an eternal inheritance (11, 14). Not only are we blessed according to our election (4, 5) but all the elect have “all spiritual blessings” (3). On the other hand, the fact that the reprobate are not blessed with any of these spiritual blessings is also according to the eternal “purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will” (11).One of the spiritual blessings we have in Christ is “redemption through his blood” (7). Thus the Son’s redemption or atonement is an instance of those spiritual blessings which come to us “according as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world” (4). Therefore, the Lord redeemed, shed His blood and died for the elect and not for the reprobate. Thus the elect are forgiven (7), adopted (5), accepted (6), made holy (4) and sealed with the Spirit (13) for their eternal inheritance (11, 14) on the basis of our Saviour’s cross. The reprobate do not receive any of the spiritual blessings of Christ’s sacrifice, for He did not die for them.
@beloved57 If you are quoting from a source, you NEED to link to or reference the source, otherwise it's plagiarism, and you WILL get an infraction for it.
Let's assume Christ did not die for His enemies. How then can it possibly be true that He loved His enemies?
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
beloved57
Well-known member
Its not plagiarism for I gave the name of the person who wrote the articles, look at the bottom of post 44, and there after I put his initials indicating when I am still quoting him, so that eliminates any idea that i was taking credit for the writings, and you should have been observant enough to have acknowledged that. Now if you want additional information, here:
The error Calvinists have latched onto is the assumption that Jesus could not possibly have died for the sins of the whole world else the whole world would have to be saved. Who said Jesus could not die for the sins of sinners He did not also save? God certainly did not say that. The Bible says Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that God could save as many as trust in Him. The truth is illustrated in the parable of the treasure in the field in which God bought the field so He could lay claim to the treasure in the field.
Matthew 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
Romans 8 Teaches Particular Redemption
Romans 8 is also contrary to universal atonement. Verses 28-30 speak of a people whom God foreknew, predestinated, called according to His purpose, justified, glorified and conformed to the image of His Son. The apostle draws the following conclusion: “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” (31). “Then” or “therefore” indicates that this is a logical inference based on his preceding statements, here called “these things.” The “us” can only be those predestinated (or elected) and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). Paul’s argument is this: If God is “for us” (31) in predestination, calling, justification and glorification (29-30), then “who can be against us?” (31). In other words, if God in His eternal decree has chosen us to everlasting bliss, called us out of darkness into His marvellous light, acquitted us of all our sins and reckoned us righteous with the very righteousness of Christ Himself, and glorified us in conforming us to the image of His Son, then “who can be against us?” (31).
The apostle reinforces this already compelling argument with another: “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (32). Who are the “us” referred to twice here for whom God sent the Saviour to die? Again, they are those predestinated and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). The only conclusion is that Christ died for the elect.
If it is objected that the Lord Jesus also died for the non-elect, then we reply that the passage gives absolutely no hint of this. In fact, this would make the passage teach that God sent His Son to die for those who are not predestinated and not called, justified, glorified or conformed to Christ. Moreover, if it is argued that the Saviour died for the reprobate, this would make the passage teach that the reprobate will receive all the blessings of His cross, for verse 32 teaches that God freely gives “all things” to those for whom Christ died. The “all things” include freedom from the law of sin and death (2), life and peace (6), adoption as God’s sons (14), the witness of the Spirit (16), an eternal inheritance (17), the redemption of the body at the resurrection of the just (23), the ability to pray in the Spirit (26), etc. Furthermore, the “all things” would also include the blessings of justification, calling, glorification and conformity to Christ according to God’s eternal predestination (28-30)! To read universal atonement into Romans 8:32 would mean that God freely gives the blessings of calling, justification and glorification to the reprobate, those whom He never calls, justifies or glorifies. This verse teaches an absolutely inseparable connection between those for whom Christ died and all these spiritual blessings. Some do not receive these blessings; therefore, the Saviour did not die for them.
Next Romans 8 declares that no charge (33) and no condemnation (34) can be laid against those who are justified (33), those for whom Christ died (34). But many charges are righteously made by the God of heaven against the reprobate wicked so that they are condemned! This is the case because they are not justified (33), for Jesus did not die for them and does not intercede for them (34).
https://cprc.co.uk/pamphlets2/forwhomdidchristdie/
Romans 8 is also contrary to universal atonement. Verses 28-30 speak of a people whom God foreknew, predestinated, called according to His purpose, justified, glorified and conformed to the image of His Son. The apostle draws the following conclusion: “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” (31). “Then” or “therefore” indicates that this is a logical inference based on his preceding statements, here called “these things.” The “us” can only be those predestinated (or elected) and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). Paul’s argument is this: If God is “for us” (31) in predestination, calling, justification and glorification (29-30), then “who can be against us?” (31). In other words, if God in His eternal decree has chosen us to everlasting bliss, called us out of darkness into His marvellous light, acquitted us of all our sins and reckoned us righteous with the very righteousness of Christ Himself, and glorified us in conforming us to the image of His Son, then “who can be against us?” (31).
The apostle reinforces this already compelling argument with another: “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (32). Who are the “us” referred to twice here for whom God sent the Saviour to die? Again, they are those predestinated and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). The only conclusion is that Christ died for the elect.
If it is objected that the Lord Jesus also died for the non-elect, then we reply that the passage gives absolutely no hint of this. In fact, this would make the passage teach that God sent His Son to die for those who are not predestinated and not called, justified, glorified or conformed to Christ. Moreover, if it is argued that the Saviour died for the reprobate, this would make the passage teach that the reprobate will receive all the blessings of His cross, for verse 32 teaches that God freely gives “all things” to those for whom Christ died. The “all things” include freedom from the law of sin and death (2), life and peace (6), adoption as God’s sons (14), the witness of the Spirit (16), an eternal inheritance (17), the redemption of the body at the resurrection of the just (23), the ability to pray in the Spirit (26), etc. Furthermore, the “all things” would also include the blessings of justification, calling, glorification and conformity to Christ according to God’s eternal predestination (28-30)! To read universal atonement into Romans 8:32 would mean that God freely gives the blessings of calling, justification and glorification to the reprobate, those whom He never calls, justifies or glorifies. This verse teaches an absolutely inseparable connection between those for whom Christ died and all these spiritual blessings. Some do not receive these blessings; therefore, the Saviour did not die for them.
Next Romans 8 declares that no charge (33) and no condemnation (34) can be laid against those who are justified (33), those for whom Christ died (34). But many charges are righteously made by the God of heaven against the reprobate wicked so that they are condemned! This is the case because they are not justified (33), for Jesus did not die for them and does not intercede for them (34).
https://cprc.co.uk/pamphlets2/forwhomdidchristdie/
Nobody gets saved just because Jesus died for their sins. Jesus even told Nicodemus that he had yet to be born again in order to go to heaven and see God, even though there is every indication in the Bible that Nicodemus was was destined to prove that he was one of the elect.
beloved57
Well-known member
marke
Thats depriving Christs Blood of its saving efficacy, not good.
I have discussed that here
Thats depriving Christs Blood of its saving efficacy, not good.
I have discussed that here
The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21. His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24 32 And I, if I be...
theologyonline.com
No, you are adding your erroneous opinion that Jesus is under some unspoken rule that if He is made the propitiation for the sins of any sinner then He is obligated to save that sinner. Jews under the Old Testament covenant with Israel had their sins atoned for once a year by offering an animal sacrifice, and yet none of them were given eternal life just because they had their sins atoned for by the animal sacrifice. Likewise, modern sinners must be born again long after Jesus atoned for their sins on the cross because Jesus' atonement does not automatically give them new life before or after they are born into the world.
I believe you misunderstand the nature of God, the nature of His atonement, and the reason all sins had to be atoned for God not to be guilty of being a respecter of persons.
To reconcile means to "restore friendly relations between."
It's God rebuilding the bridge between man and Himself, after man is separated from Him because of man's sin.
Separated, as in, dead in sin.
God rebuilt the bridge. Man is responsible to walk across that bridge.