Liberalism is Dead and Evangelicals Don't Deserve It Anyway

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Tambora

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I love the Civil War, too. I love history even when it's sad, or hard, or ugly, or .....
Me too.

I hate the push to erase what offends from our history. Soon we'll be left with empty shelves and emptier minds. :nono:
Girl, here in TEXAS our Alamo is getting some major restoration.
They have the statues and monuments in storage.
They are actually worried that some idiot is going to file a protest to DESTROY any statue or memorabilia of any of the men that fought at the Alamo who were slave owners.
Can you believe that????
The Alamo for crying out loud!
The Alamo had absolutely nothing to do with slavery.
 

Danoh

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This is a common analogy that's used to defend the illiberal practices of forum moderators, and I don't think that it works. One's home and an internet group or forum are qualitatively different. The entire reason why you would set up an internet forum is to facilitate the free flow of ideas/information about a given topic or set of topics.

However, in practice, that's not what happens. They are primarily used to reinforce one's own ideological bubble. Knight, e.g., has explicitly acknowledged that TOL's moderation is biased towards people who share his views and against people who disagree with his views.

And it's not just TOL. That's almost universally true of most discussion groups.

And it's not even just online. SJWs campaign to have people they disagree with deplatformed from private speaking events.



Liberalism is doomed. It is no longer tenable. Liberalism only works when the society itself is liberal. We don't have a liberal society. We have a society which is de iure liberal, but de facto censorious and authoritarian. Expressing the wrong opinions can get you banned from internet discussion groups, fired from your job, etc., even if you haven't actually violated anyone's rights.

The days of liberalism are numbered, and it's already dying in Europe, especially since the advent of the migrant crisis. Except, it's not Nazis who are killing liberalism. It's SJW leftists with things like hate speech laws. You know you can get fined and imprisoned for "misgendering" someone in California now, at least, under certain circumstances, right?

I am a liberal in principle; however, granted that liberalism is doomed, I would much prefer an illiberal society that suits my own interests than an illiberal society that runs contrary to my interests.

Better a Nazi society than a marxist society.

Within the view of Scripture that I hold to, more or less, a division can be found within said view's group, in general.

On the one hand, a part of that group holds to is what is basically referred to as Mid-Acts, Pauline, Dispensational.

On the other, the remaining part of said group, at least as far as where the following is concerned, holds to what is referred to as Mid-Acts, Pauline Grace Dispensational.

The difference between the two is that although both preach Grace, only the latter of the two groups have found a means of actually practicing said Grace when met with opposition to their views.

A Pastor within this latter group was once conducting a Pastor's training in which he related that he had found the freedom that Grace allows one to allow one's flock, only when he had understood the following passages; in which the Apostle Paul not only calls out what he must, but at the same time reminds them of where he looked at them from.

2 Corinthians 1:23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

Said lens is rare - even withen so called Mid-Acts Dispensationalists.

Thus, the distinction between the two groups.

In short, no - though you may or may not have not found yourself dealing with such "Grace people" it does not mean such and their "liberality" do not exist.

In short, keep the faith; hold the fort; you will see land...

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

2 Corinthians 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness; ) 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men; 9:14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you. 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Because Romans 5:8.

Let that... be your lens.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Me too.

Girl, here in TEXAS our Alamo is getting some major restoration.
They have the statues and monuments in storage.
They are actually worried that some idiot is going to file a protest to DESTROY any statue or memorabilia of any of the men that fought at the Alamo who were slave owners.
Can you believe that????
The Alamo for crying out loud!
The Alamo had absolutely nothing to do with slavery.

It makes me sick. Remember the Alamo are words that should go down in infamy.

The great Generals of the South were amazing men. Even Columbus, for crying out loud?

Thomas Jefferson's Memorial. When I lived in Virginia, we went to all the Civil War battle sites. Incredible....reenactments and metal detecting for bullets, etc. There is an old slave quarters near where we lived. What these did was give us a great empathy for the slaves....not the other way around.

Truly ignorant people out there. Grrr.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
.

On the one hand, a part of that group holds to is what is basically referred to as Mid-Acts, Pauline, Dispensational.

On the other, the remaining part of said group, at least as far as where the following is concerned, holds to what is referred to as Mid-Acts, Pauline Grace Dispensational.

:deadhorse:
 

Traditio

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And for the record, I want to impress upon all of you just how dead liberalism is and how nobody actually believes in it.

The left doesn't. They believe in identity politics. They've bought into intersectional feminism. They believe in gender and racial politics...so long as that politics is biased against white men.

Neither does the right. They view liberalism as an obstacle to the interests of big business.

Naziism is the only real choice, given the absence of a liberal alternative.
 

Tambora

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Trad, I had to look back to see why I gave you the infraction. I didn't give you the infraction to ban you, although I suspected that you would end up banned due to the amount of points (infractions) you had. I gave you the infraction because you already know that racism is looked down upon here. I'm sorry that you're upset by that. But, as has already been pointed out to you, you already know the rules on TOL.

I don't take this thread as disrespect because of the way you expressed yourself in it. I actually appreciate the fact that you didn't blow up after you came back. I don't agree with your views on the Jews. And, even if I did, I wouldn't express my views on them the way you did. There are ways that such issues can be discussed without bigotry.

And, by the way, I've never claimed to be liberal. In fact, I take it as an insult when someone tries to say that I am liberal.
Since we are being candid in a respectful manner, I'm going to take issue with the "racism" rule and would like to voice my concern with it.

Does it help racism to NOT talk about it?
It seems to me that recent events have shown that keeping it pent up with a tight lip has only caused it to fester to a boiling point and blew the lid plumb off!
Can we not accept that different folks have different preferences of how they vision a Utopian world without labeling them as racist scum?

After all, it is a topic that many throughout the world have an interest in.
And why shouldn't they?
The topic is flooding the news and social media.
TOL might benefit by being a little less strict about it, at least while the subject has a massive renewed interest worldwide.

I don't know. :idunno:
Just a thought.
 

Traditio

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Tambora said:
Can we not accept that different folks have different preferences of how they vision a Utopian world without labeling them as racist scum?

No. I may be a Nazi, but the admins of this forum are autocratic authoritarians.

There will be no changes.

Save, of course, to ban me, though I intellectually outclass all of you.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
No. I may be a Nazi, but the admins of this forum are autocratic authoritarians.

There will be no changes.

Save, of course, to ban me, though I intellectually outclass all of you.

I do believe that is a Trumpianism right there. :thumb:
 

Jonahdog

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Save, of course, to ban me, though I intellectually outclass all of you.

Of course you do. You have a bigly brain, a great IQ. We know, your posts are clear on that. Plus you just told us.
I suspect the moderators will continue to allow you to post your particular brand of garbage here,because as Justice Brandeis wrote: "Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants..."
 

ebenz47037

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Since we are being candid in a respectful manner, I'm going to take issue with the "racism" rule and would like to voice my concern with it.

Does it help racism to NOT talk about it?
It seems to me that recent events have shown that keeping it pent up with a tight lip has only caused it to fester to a boiling point and blew the lid plumb off!
Can we not accept that different folks have different preferences of how they vision a Utopian world without labeling them as racist scum?

After all, it is a topic that many throughout the world have an interest in.
And why shouldn't they?
The topic is flooding the news and social media.
TOL might benefit by being a little less strict about it, at least while the subject has a massive renewed interest worldwide.

I don't know. :idunno:
Just a thought.

I don't have a problem with talking about racism. Most of my maternal uncles are former KKK members. I have a problem with blaming other races for the problems we're facing in society.
 

Tambora

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What manner of tolerance are you making claim to?

Your avatar/banner proudly indicates otherwise. Explain thyself.
I believe one of his points is tolerance of others views per free speech.
Trad has no problem tolerating you expressing your view per free speech, so why can't you be as tolerant of his view as he is to yours?
Why must tolerance of free speech be one-sided?
 

Traditio

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I don't have a problem with talking about racism. Most of my maternal uncles are former KKK members. I have a problem with blaming other races for the problems we're facing in society.

1. That plainly falls under what should be "the free marketplace of ideas." If other races obviously are not to blame for our problems, then you should love the fact that I'm blaming other races, since that gives many people the opportunity to show exactly why that's not true.

Of course, you can't do that, because the things that you've found so repulsive aren't actually false.

In fact, the legislator who pushed the law in California was Jewish.

In fact, Jews are vastly over represented in various fields.

In fact, Jews have a vastly disproportionate impact on the world economy.

In fact, US foreign policy is disproportionately impacted by Jewish interests (read: Israel).

Those points are indisputably true. You may disagree with the spin that I'm putting on those things, but you can't actually disagree with the facts. Because they're correct.

2. And let's be real, Ebenz: you, and most right wing evangelicals, are likely DEEPLY racist.

That's likely WHY you guys are right wingers.

I don't really explain what I meant by a subtly racist subtext in the OP, but let's talk about that.

If I used the phrase "welfare queen," chances are, you, and most right wingers on this website, would applaud my use of the term. After all, Reagan used it, and all good right wingers know that those welfare queens are the scum of the earth, aren't they?

Except you and I both know EXACTLY what a welfare queen looks like. You know the image that conjures up.

Complaining about welfare queens is qualitatively no different from using the n-word.

Right wing political ideology is largely veiled racism.

That's why the Southern Strategy was so effective for so long, after all!

The difference between me and you right wingers is that I don't bother doing the song and dance to hide it...and, of course, you right wingers are likely far more racist than I'll ever be.

The right wing hatred of welfare, as well as continued support for the war on drugs, is veiled racism against black people.

The right wing hatred of illegal immigration is veiled racism against Latinos.

The right wing fear of Islamic migrants is largely veiled racism against brown people in general.

And there's a good chance that you didn't vote for Trump because he said would impose trade tariffs, if you know what I'm saying. After all, "evangelical Christians," you weren't attracted to his good, wholesome family values, were you?

And deny it all you want.

But studies have been done.

And if you were to take the various tests designed to reveal implicit/subconscious racial biases, I think we all know what the results would be.
 

Traditio

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But of course, it's not racist to express continued support for the US drone program, even though roughly 90% of the casualties are civilians.

But that's fine.

They're just brown people, right?

GASP!

Did I say that out loud? :nono:
 

Traditio

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Do you still consider yourself to be a Catholic? or a Christian of any type?

What's funny about this is that it would actually take very little to persuade me that we don't need a national socialist white ethnostate.

All you would have to do is demonstrate that liberalism is not under threat, especially by cultural marxists, and that a large number of cultural marxists are not waging an unholy crusade against white people, especially white men.

All you would have to do is show me that intersectional feminism and overt racism against white people is not becoming absolutely commonplace.

Of course...

You can't do that.

Can you?

And given that:

What response could be more reasonable than national socialism?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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[MENTION=7660]Traditio[/MENTION]

Other than these usual provocative screeds, what are you up to nowadays, Trad?

Finished you grad studies?
Blogging somewhere?
Teachings as an adjunct?

AMR
 
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