Liberalism is Dead and Evangelicals Don't Deserve It Anyway

[kmoney]

What were you talking about?

If you mean the preference/hate part were talking about entire races.

 

[CabinetMaker]

...
My tolerance of others gives me, in turn, a right to be tolerated. Not endorsed. Not accepted. But certainly tolerated.
...

No, your tolerance does not grantee you the right to be tolerated in return. Your increasingly open and repugnant racism is, in fact, intolerable.

 

[Lon]

Let me be clear:

I don't necessarily assert that Hitler was a good guy. I freely grant that many of the policies enacted by the Nazi state were objectively objectionable/evil.

But that alone does not, and as a Christian, you simply must agree with me when I say this, allow us to say that Hitler was a bad guy.

Really? Herod? Jezebel? Ahab? Cain? Satan? The Rolling Stones?

Hitler was just a guy.

:think: He was two-faced and no friend to Christians. Romans 12:19

Do you think that if you had lived and grown up in his shoes, had you taken his place, world history would have turned out different?

Yes, for sure. Absolutely.

I don't believe that for a moment.

Good thing your erroneous belief has not much at all to do with it, no?

I can't honestly say that, had I been in Hitler's shoes, I would have done all that much differently from him.

Sad, but the goodnews? You aren't two-faced enough to have been anything like him so the world

And neither can you.

Incorrect. I can. If given the opportunity, I'd not make Muslim camps. We Christians (not you?) seek His kingdom come, His will be done. It isn't extermination. "If" it is not a better way, Christianity cannot survive. The point of departure, is here, Trad. If you do not do this His way, you are off doing it 'your' way and will stand before Him as a guy trying to usurp Him or 'do Him a favor.' Don't be that guy. Proverbs 3:34

 

[drbrumley]

Wow, that Nazi love fest was really something. lain:

Sickening is more like it....how can anyone say if they were in Hitler's shoes, they would probably do the same thing. Tragic really.

[MENTION=7660]Traditio[/MENTION], you still have not explained the Jewish problem.... what is it?

 

[kmoney]

I do wish, for a moment, to pause to reflect on this: "But Hitler was such a bad guy" meme.

Why?

Was it because he committed war crimes?

Show me an allied power that DIDN'T commit war crimes.

The use of nuclear weapons were crimes against humanity which simply cannot be justified, which, in my view, cry out to Heaven for justice.

Was it because Hitler committed genocide?

Are you so sure that the US wouldn't have summarily executed interned ethnic Japanese people? Nor were the Soviets innocent of such crimes.

And do tell me your opinion about the current US role in aiding Saudia Arabia in their effort against Yemen.

Explain to me precisely why you think that Hitler was uniquely evil, and in the course of so doing, in my view, you shall reveal the reality of the international Jewish problem.

HAIL VICTORY!

Trying to exterminate an entire group of people may not be exactly unique or unprecedented but it also isn't the run of the mill stuff. You're just trying to deflect to make your hero look better. It's not pretty to watch.

 

[kmoney]

Here's what I really think, Kmoney:

I think that there are real racial disparities in the United States, and I think that black people are, as a demographic group, objectively worse off than white people, considered as a demographic group. This doesn't mean that every black person is worse off than every white person. But as a whole, black people aren't doing as well as other demographic groups.

I think that individual acts of racial prejudice may partially explain this disparity, but I also don't think that this entirely explains the problem.

I think that the apparently racial problems that we face in this country are not actually racial, but class problems. I think that the solution to these problems is not racial, but economic (including things like a universal basic income, medicare for all, free education, etc.), and that if these economic reforms were to be enacted, I think that the race problem would largely disappear within a few generations.

The problem, however, is that we live in a highly racialized society where, instead of there being a common outcry against the economic system, there is an outcry against white people.

It's hard to understand how you can say all of that which I consider to be pretty reasonable but then you finish with the junk below. I agree with a lot of this. I even agree with some of what you criticize above. But I think you reach an absurd conclusion that may or may not be underpinned by racism against minorities.

If you don't also see criticism of our economic system then you're missing it. The economic system is criticized. Guess which party fights against those changes. Guess which party is driven mostly by white people like Trump. lain:

Just a couple quick hits from the rest of your post that I cut out:
- I don't think races are monoliths.
- The reaction I was talking about is that the racialized society you hate did not start with the people you're outraged with now.
- I didn't say AA programs are designed to fight discrimination. It's designed to fight the effects of it.

That's why we need to send black people back to Africa. That's why we need to build a wall. That's why we need to send muslims back to the middle east.

Because I simply refuse to be a disenfranchised ethnic minority in the country where I was born and raised.

Hail. Victory!

So your options are to institute drastic economic reforms to help black people or send them all back to Africa. :freak:

It'd be easier if you and Spencer and his ilk leave. :wave2:

 

[Traditio]

Sickening is more like it....how can anyone say if they were in Hitler's shoes, they would probably do the same thing. Tragic really.

You likely disagree with me because you don't fully understand what I'm saying.

I think that you and Lon are reading me as saying that had I, Traditio, with my life experiences, cultural background, etc. been in Hitler's shoes, I would have done the things that Hitler did.

That is absolutely not what I am saying. Had I, Traditio, been in Hitler's circumstances, the course of history would have run much differently.

But that's not what I mean.

Essentially, what I am saying is that if you, or Lon, or I were to have essentially BEEN Hitler, if we would have had his parents, been a part of his cultural milieu, had his cultural, parental, etc. upbringing, had his unique life experiences, had syphilis, etc., then we likely would have done what he did, at least, for the most part.

This is essentially the same as the question of whether Hitler could have acted differently. The answer, of course, is yes, but the fact that he acted as he did shouldn't be particularly surprising, all things considered.

Of course Hitler interned the Jews. When someone who was a part of that particular cultural zeitgeist considered the fact that so many of the Marxist revolutionaries, and so many of those with international corporate interests (especially among the bankers) were Jews, and when he considered how both of these things were gravely contrary to the interests of the German people, it is not a great leap to go from "There are a lot of Jews who are screwing things up for us" to "All of the Jews are a problem [except for a select few, e.g., Hitler's doctor, who was apparently an all around good guy, and whom Hitler recognized as such]." And it's not a leap from that to putting them in internment camps, especially once the second world war was under way.

And once Germany started losing and they were facing significant economic hardships (e.g., literal starvation), it's not really surprising that the holocaust happened.

And again, I pose you the question:

What if the war had gone differently? What do you think would have happened to the ethnic japanese being detained by the US in internment camps?

[MENTION=7660]Traditio[/MENTION], you still have not explained the Jewish problem.... what is it?

Jews have a vastly disproportionate influence on the media, the economy and politics.

And, dare I say, on various academic fields.

That is an indisputable fact.

Not to mention the Jewish tendency to have a strong in-group preference.

 

[Lon]

You likely disagree with me because you don't fully understand what I'm saying.

I think that you and Lon are reading me as saying that had I, Traditio, with my life experiences, cultural background, etc. been in Hitler's shoes, I would have done the things that Hitler did.

That is absolutely not what I am saying. Had I, Traditio, been in Hitler's circumstances, the course of history would have run much differently.

But that's not what I mean.

Essentially, what I am saying is that if you, or Lon, or I were to have essentially BEEN Hitler, if we would have had his parents, been a part of his cultural milieu, had his cultural, parental, etc. upbringing, had his unique life experiences, had syphilis, etc., then we likely would have done what he did, at least, for the most part.

Nature, nurture, or grace? Are we blank slates? Pavlovian/Skinnarian animals? I had a horrific childhood and worse than Hitler's privileged life. I'm convinced we are not merely the products of our environments. I'm convinced more, that God can reach into the darkest mess Romans 8:58

This is essentially the same as the question of whether Hitler could have acted differently. The answer, of course, is yes, but the fact that he acted as he did shouldn't be particularly surprising, all things considered.

I really wonder, at times, if your mind is set on earthly things, or heavenly things. Only you can answer that, but the Lord Jesus Christ often called the Disciples and all others, to get their minds off of earthly things.

All things considered, he has my undying respect.

HAIL VICTORY!

It 'seems' like it was partially what you meant

Of course Hitler interned the Jews. When someone who was a part of that particular cultural zeitgeist considered the fact that so many of the Marxist revolutionaries, and so many of those with international corporate interests (especially among the bankers) were Jews, and when he considered how both of these things were gravely contrary to the interests of the German people, it is not a great leap to go from "There are a lot of Jews who are screwing things up for us" to "All of the Jews are a problem [except for a select few, e.g., Hitler's doctor, who was apparently an all around good guy, and whom Hitler recognized as such]." And it's not a leap from that to putting them in internment camps, especially once the second world war was under way.

And once Germany started losing and they were facing significant economic hardships (e.g., literal starvation), it's not really surprising that the holocaust happened.

And again, I pose you the question:

What if the war had gone differently? What do you think would have happened to the ethnic japanese being detained by the US in internment camps?



Jews have a vastly disproportionate influence on the media, the economy and politics.

And, dare I say, on various academic fields.

That is an indisputable fact.

Not to mention the Jewish tendency to have a strong in-group preference.

Whether or not, these people are in God's hands. Lest you find yourself vying against God, lest these people are still God's chosen, though rejecting; you might rethink angst. I certainly don't deserve grace. You certainly don't deserve grace. There is no 'deserve' to blessings, lest you are jealous, covetous, and envious of another man's blessing. Be careful, it may be all you and he ever receive in this life. Abraham was looking for a city, whose Builder and Maker were God. Only those like him, will inherit the imperishable.

 

[Lon]

Anyway, the Judge was so stunned by the argument made that the Judge ended up standing up from the bench and walking out of the courtroom.
When a Judge does that, the case is dismissed.

My step father had to go in before the judge for shooting a deer out of season. The fine, even way back then was huge. The judge asked why. "Out of work, kids hungry." The judged ordered him pay $10 for a hunting license and told him to take the deer (held in a freezer or something by the court)home to his family. I wonder sometimes if the judge is willing to lose face like in your story, for the sake of kids. It gives me hope. :e4e:

 

[chair]

Anybody who cannot prove that they are at least 1/4 True American should be shipped off to wherever their ancestors came from. So if you don't have a little Cherokee or Navajo in you- off you go!

 

[Right Divider]

Anybody who cannot prove that they are at least 1/4 True American should be shipped off to wherever their ancestors came from. So if you don't have a little Cherokee or Navajo in you- off you go!

The original inhabitants of North America were not born in North America. Did you not know this?

 

[gcthomas]

The original inhabitants of North America were not born in North America. Did you not know this?

But they claimed and populated an empty land. That puts European immigrants into a rather different category.

 

[Right Divider]

But they claimed and populated an empty land. That puts European immigrants into a rather different category.

So the first person to set foot on the North American continent has the right to claim the entire thing?

 

[gcthomas]

So the first person to set foot on the North American continent has the right to claim the entire thing?

They have lived in the land for 15 thousand years before Europeans came and took their land from them. Should the possession of firearms and virulent diseases have given the settlers the right to take the land others already occupied?

 

[Nihilo]

We can't have this conversation without invoking stereotypical language, and that being said:

Jews have a vastly disproportionate influence on the media, the economy and politics.

And, dare I say, on various academic fields.

That is an indisputable fact.

Agreed. Jews are outnumbered about 500-to-1. They pose more than a 1/500th influence on the world. But there's one thought, that it's due to a conspiracy. And then there's another, that it's something other than a conspiracy.

I think that rather than saying there's a "Jewish problem," that there's a problem with everybody else. There's a deficiency among other people, of discipline, of wisdom, and/or some other bona fide qualities perhaps. There's a laziness problem with everybody else IOW, a problem of sloth, is my first thought.

If we all were more "Jew-ish," then wouldn't your so-called "Jewish problem" go away, without any discrimination or violence or bloodshed? And wouldn't the world be far better off for it?

Not to mention the Jewish tendency to have a strong in-group preference.

But don't all families do that? I know mine does, and most other families I know of do too. I don't think that's bad, necessarily, so long as it doesn't interfere with justice.

 

[Right Divider]

They have lived in the land for 15 thousand years before Europeans came and took their land from them. Should the possession of firearms and virulent diseases have given the settlers the right to take the land others already occupied?

Nope. Just keeping it real. But I do like your speculation.

What's your take on the natives fighting over the land among themselves? There are many examples of different tribes slaughtering each other over different parts of the land.

P.S. I'm not in any way trying to justify certain brutalities perpetrated by "Europeans".

 

[gcthomas]

Nope. Just keeping it real. But I do like your speculation.

What's your take on the natives fighting over the land among themselves? There are many examples of different tribes slaughtering each other over different parts of the land.

P.S. I'm not in any way trying to justify certain brutalities perpetrated by "Europeans".

Sounds like brutish lives. But property rights were brought in with European settlers, so it would be odd not to recognise native rights.

 

[Right Divider]

Sounds like brutish lives. But property rights were brought in with European settlers, so it would be odd not to recognise native rights.

Europeans invented property rights?

 

[gcthomas]

Europeans invented property rights?

All sorts of people invented property rights. :idunno:

 

[Right Divider]

Sounds like brutish lives. But property rights were brought in with European settlers, so it would be odd not to recognise native rights.

All sorts of people invented property rights. :idunno:

So the Native Americans did not have property rights until the Europeans "brought" them?

Who are these "all sorts of people" that invented property rights? Were none of them Native Americans?

You're talking in circles.