Just As Pagan

[monochrome]

Well, one probable reason for the parallels is that the myths weren't written down until a few centuries after the Christianization of Ireland. Those myths may have already been contaminated by Christian additions.

Good point. It's been so long since I researched the lore that I may have overlooked that. I was trying to think of the non-obvious ones. Saint Bridget is obviously the work of St Peter's guys, since Brigit was actually a fire goddess, much like Bel (as in Beltaine) if I recall correctly. Probably not though.

- m -

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I forget where, I'll have to look into it over the weekend, but i read somewhere of a story of jesus traveling to britain and establishing a church personally. of course this story would hinge upon his survival of the crucifixion.

Historically, it's bogus. As a myth, however, it's interesting. Most of Britain was Christianized before the Saxons came in: so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.

 

[allsmiles]

Historically, it's bogus. As a myth, however, it's interesting. Most of Britain was Christianized before the Saxons came in: so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.

but you've heard of the myth, right?

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

but you've heard of the myth, right?

Oh, yeah--it's a later development of the "Joseph of Arimathea came to Glastonbury" myth--dates from the Romantic era, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[allsmiles]

cool stuff.

 

[servent101]

Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)

so that's where the mythical Arthur tales were based.

I've always been very partial to the Arthurian mythos.

I have been too - if anything written in thein the English language (not translated from another culture) comes close to real Insight and Spiritual teachings - it is these tales of King Arthour and Merlin the Wizzard. Depach Chopra (spelling) has a number of videos out on these matters - I find them very very full of answers to many questions that are "natural" in the human heart. If anyone knows of other Writings first penned in English that are as good or better or even close - let me know please.

With Christ's Love

servent101

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Originally Posted by Justin (Wiccan)



I have been too - if anything written in thein the English language (not translated from another culture) comes close to real Insight and Spiritual teachings - it is these tales of King Arthour and Merlin the Wizzard.

Um ... servent101 ... Most of these were originally written in French and Provencal--the Parsifal legend was first written in Mittledeutch.

Sowwy.

 

[Zimfan]

Good point. It's been so long since I researched the lore that I may have overlooked that. I was trying to think of the non-obvious ones. Saint Bridget is obviously the work of St Peter's guys, since Brigit was actually a fire goddess, much like Bel (as in Beltaine) if I recall correctly. Probably not though.

- m -

Hey now, you be nice to Saint Brigid. She's one of the few Saints whose miracles included creating beer out of thin air.

By the way, you're entirely correct. Brigid was a fire goddess(and I've read far too many books on Irish history. Legend has it that Saint Brigid was a priestess of the goddess who converted to Christianity. She is attributed with all sorts of miracles(most of the stories of which are of dubious origin) and the founding of monastaries(more likely to be true but still rather dubious). However, we really have no idea whether such a person existed and just how far the stories are from the reality if she did.

 

[Zimfan]

Well, "doubt over the victor" in Zoroastrian mythology isn't in doubt, but for some (like the Norse), the ... was adopted by Judaism (and thence by Christianity) from Zoroastrianism, he really got weakened, and is no longer even remotely equivalent to God.

oh: D'oh! I could have writtena similiar explanation if I'd checked this thread out earlier.

Ah well. Great Post! :thumb: I'd give ya rep points for it but I have to spread some around first.

 

[fool]

I'm quite sure I've lost track of the conversation here. We were talking about pagan-Jesus-crossoverism? There was some egyption godess that got immaculatly impregnated with a god child.
Had wise men at the event.
Jesus had 12 deciples, there is 12 months in the year.
The sun dies, and is reborn on the winter solstice, same as J.C.
Diane? Dianysys? Some greek god had a big thing with turning water into wine.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I'm quite sure I've lost track of the conversation here. We were talking about pagan-Jesus-crossoverism? There was some egyption godess that got immaculatly impregnated with a god child.
Had wise men at the event.
Jesus had 12 deciples, there is 12 months in the year.
The sun dies, and is reborn on the winter solstice, same as J.C.
Diane? Dianysys? Some greek god had a big thing with turning water into wine.

There are a lot of similarities between the Jesus story and various myths of the time ... the problem is deciding if they are merely similarities, or if the story "borged" the myths. The big problem is that such a conclusion is difficult to prove even skeptically, and impossible to prove to a believer's satisfaction.

It must also be remembered that a lot of the so-called "similarities" are fraudulent--for example, the "Crucified Osiris" that is sometimes cited on skeptical websites was an outright forgery.

With problems like that in the field, I think it's fairly useless to debate "Pagan Christs," or any such things. The field is just too contaminated, and no one will come to enough of a consensus to do anything but turn the affair into a shouting match where nothing gets resolved, and no one learns anything.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

oh: D'oh! I could have writtena similiar explanation if I'd checked this thread out earlier.

Ah well. Great Post! :thumb: I'd give ya rep points for it but I have to spread some around first.

Thankee kindly, oh Spork-man!

 

[Zimfan]

Wait a sec, twelve apostles, twelve bottles of beer in a case...eureka! The drinking of beer by the case has biblical origins. I'm gonna break open a case of Warsteiner on Sunday! :cheers: Slaintè!

 

[Zimfan]

Of course, we could trace it further back to the twelve months of the Julian calender making the drinking of beer by the case pagan. NOOOOOOO!!!! I don't wanna believe it...so I don't. Just a coincidence unlike the earlier correlation between the number of apostles and the number of beers in a case. Ain't self-delusion grand? Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[fool]

Wait a sec, twelve apostles, twelve bottles of beer in a case...eureka! The drinking of beer by the case has biblical origins. I'm gonna break open a case of Warsteiner on Sunday! :cheers: Slaintè!

Uh.... Zim?
there's 24 beers in a case around my place,
your reality may, of course, vary.

 

[Zimfan]

Uh.... Zim?
there's 24 beers in a case around my place,
your reality may, of course, vary.

Not all cases. I can only ever find cases of twelve when I buy Warsteiner or Bass.

From a British website that sells beer:

Thwaites
‘Daniel’s Hammer’
A strong beer pale golden in colour and with a distinctively malty taste 0.5 litre bottle x 12 / case
5.2% abv.

Thwaites ‘Thoroughbred'’

Unmistakable hopped aroma enriched by the addition of dry hops to give intense flavour and aroma. 0.5 litre bottle x 12 / case
4.0% abv.

 

[OMEGA]

zoroastrianism is based on the dualism between ahura mazda and angra mainyu

I own a Mazda - never again.
----------------------------------------------

But Seriously, I hope that you get the support that you need.

 

[Turbo]

No, I think the closest it gets to what you're talking about is Zoroastrianism, or the Christian heresy of Manicheism. When Satan was adopted by Judaism (and thence by Christianity) from Zoroastrianism, he really got weakened, and is no longer even remotely equivalent to God.

thanks for the lesson, i hope other people read this.

as a christian, how and when were you made aware of the tranference of satan from zoroastrianism to judaism and consequently to christianity, and how do you think a christian would be able to explain the apparent and historical progression?

Note how readily allsmiles accepts Justin's bald assertion as truth.

 

[fool]

Note how readily allsmiles accepts Justin's bald assertion as truth.

Maybe Justin has cast a spell over him.
(cue spooky music)