Just a few rapture questions

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Simple, because you consistently do not understand prophecy. You take the exact same positions as the Pharisees of today, the so-called "rabbis". The Essenes understood Prophecies in the Tanakh. They were the ones that believed in Messiah because they understood Prophecy and that he fulfilled it. They knew the "times and seasons". Thankfully, they stored the Dead Sea Scrolls, which we are just now reading.

You are talking to me and trying to explain something to me that is not true about me as if it were or is true about me.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
You seem to already have your answer, so why are you asking.

Where did Enoch go when he was raptured?
Where did Elijah go when he was raptured?
harpazō = "snatched out of the way"


For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [snatched away] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

They weren't raptured. Elijah came back to Earth and later wrote a letter to king Jehoram: http://biblehub.com/2_chronicles/21-12.htm . Enoch walking with God and being taken by God is not rapture. Jesus was the first to be raptured. He is the first fruits.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
You are saying Isaiah 2 happened a long time ago.

Isaiah 2:1-2 (KJV)
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Im sorry but contrary to what you believe the "last days" have not yet arrived. We are getting close.
Isaiah 2:1-4 is about the last days.
The Day of the Lord described in Isaiah 2:5-3:26 is about God bringing Babylon against Judah and Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:12
12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:​


Isaiah 3:1
1 For, behold, the Lord, the Lord of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water.​

 

genuineoriginal

New member
Seventy weeks [שָׁבוּעַ shâbûwa'] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies [קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh -קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh]. - Daniel 9:24

Sixty-nine shabuwa'(literally "sevens") were completed at the death of Messiah [Dan 9:26a], which leaves one seven-year-period remaining to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27

The seventy weeks of the prophecy ended 3-1/2 years after Jesus died on the cross.
The seventy weeks ended in the time between the death of Stephen in Acts 7 and the account of Cornelius in Acts 10.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
Asked this question before. How many general resurrections are yet to happen? Rapturist or non rapturist. If you can show me more than 2 {thats all i found} please show me the scripture

Revelation 20

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Two raptures yet to come. One before the 1000 year reign and one after. Jesus' rapture (resurrection) along with the holy men was technically the first. Three rapture events in total.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
Can i see one scripture that actually says that. Dont bother answering with a song and dance down the bunny trail. Ishtars on the way.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
On His way from heaven to earth to start the thousand year kingdom, Jesus will meet the believers in the air.
The believers do not wave at Jesus as they pass Him on their way to heaven without Him, Jesus meets them in the air and brings them with Him to earth.
 

beameup

New member
On His way from heaven to earth to start the thousand year kingdom, Jesus will meet the believers in the air.
The believers do not wave at Jesus as they pass Him on their way to heaven without Him,
Jesus meets them in the air and brings them with Him to earth.

Romanist nonsense, that makes no common sense whatsoever. :dizzy:
Obviously "theology" cooked-up by the Roman Emperor
and his "theologians" when Christianity became the
"State Religion" under Constantine. You are a preterist;
another Romanist doctrine. You have so much in common with the RCC.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Romanist nonsense, that makes no common sense whatsoever. :dizzy:
Obviously "theology" cooked-up by the Roman Emperor
and his "theologians" when Christianity became the
"State Religion" under Constantine. You are a preterist;
another Romanist doctrine. You have so much in common with the RCC.
I am not a Preterist, Preterists do not believe in a future return of Jesus.
I am a Historical Premillennialist who uses the literal-historical-grammatical method of hermeneutics to understand the Bible.
Roman Catholics do not believe in the literal fulfillment of prophecy, they are Amillennialists.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
On His way from heaven to earth to start the thousand year kingdom, Jesus will meet the believers in the air.
The believers do not wave at Jesus as they pass Him on their way to heaven without Him, Jesus meets them in the air and brings them with Him to earth.

It doesn't say that either. Actually what must be understood is that Jesus returns with his Holy followers:

Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones

These are the priests of God and of Christ who will reign with him for a thousand years:

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

It is these people who will go with Jesus to Earth to reign for 1000 years. These will be the 144,000 of the first resurrection which actually takes place at the same time the two witnesses are raptured (resurrected):

Revelation 11:11-12
11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

The 144,000 will be Christians who recognise the teaching of Elijah (the lead witness) is correct Biblical interpretation, especially eschatologically and will be preaching the same message as Elijah and pointing out who Elijah and the other witness is. After the two witnesses are raptured, along with the 144,000, there is a 45 day wait till they return with Jesus:

Daniel 12:11-12
11“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

The abomination set up at the temple is the image of the Anti-Christ, but this is not done till the two witnesses have been killed and resurrected. Therefore 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is only talking about the 144,000 who are raptured in the first Resurrection. Jesus meets them in the air and they all go to Heaven together, then after 45 days they return on the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord (Atonement).
 
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DansingWall

New member
It doesn't say that either. Actually what must be understood is that Jesus returns with his Holy followers:

Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones

JUDE 1 [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS,[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

DEUT.33 [1] And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.[2] And he said, THE LORD CAME FROM SINAI, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and HE CAME WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF SAINTS: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.[3] Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.[4] Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

So i guess the “ten thousands of saints” in Jude are not those who were raptured as you will find those "ten thousands of saints" comin round the mountain at the giving of the law at Mt.Sinai.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
JUDE 1 [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS,[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

DEUT.33 [1] And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.[2] And he said, THE LORD CAME FROM SINAI, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and HE CAME WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF SAINTS: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.[3] Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.[4] Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

So i guess the “ten thousands of saints” in Jude are not those who were raptured as you will find those "ten thousands of saints" comin round the mountain at the giving of the law at Mt.Sinai.

Gill's commentary on this states they were angels in Deut 33:2 and saints in Jude 1:14.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jude/1-14.htm

"and when he comes, he will be attended "with ten thousand of his saints": meaning either the souls of glorified saints, even all of them, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, which will come with Christ, and meet the living ones, and be reunited to their own bodies, which will then be raised; or else the holy angels, as in Deuteronomy 33:2"

I agree it is not totally clear whether it means angels or saints in either of these text but I side with saints returning with Jesus and angels were with God in Sinai (Deut 33:2).

Enoch saw the second coming, that I am sure of as that is what Jude meant and Jesus returns to Earth to land on the Mount of Olives and then rules for 1000 years with the 144,000.
 

DansingWall

New member
No. The LAST trumpet is the LAST trumpet

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15. In fact in Matt.24 youll also find the gathering of His elect {In the twinkling of an eye}

So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!

REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.

Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period

REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible

REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.

REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom, right here on Gods green earth
 
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