John 10:30 – Jesus is The Son of God

[freelight]

No fear here,...as all possible points of view are always considered........

No fear here,...as all possible points of view are always considered........

I can understand why you do not want to address this passage and my remarks on it:

Jerry,...I'm quite familiar with the centuries old Unitarian/Trinitarian debate, having my own threads on Historical Unitarian and Arian Christianity in the past, plus knowing of other Christological perspectives one may choose from,...theres a rather diverse assortment, so these for me are interesting, yet I approach them on a more liberal philosophical level, not necessarily dogmatic, and beyond that metaphysically, as so many attempts have been made to dissect the man Jesus to discern his 'human' and 'divine' components of which heretical groups were blamed for misappropriating. (back then and now, to the 'orthodox', you have to get the 'ratio' down just right, but then the rest is a 'divine mystery'). You know, the biggest socio-politically powered 'church' had a mightier hand in determining what doctrines would become 'orthodox' in a formative period of doctrine-making (particularly during the 4th - 6th centuries). So goes the history of conquests down thru the ages. Not to be too quick a 'conspiracy theorist', but you have to examine the data.

My Christology is open and free, because I recognize both the human and divine aspects (all the elements) of Jesus the Christ within both orthodox and unorthodox schools of thought, which for me enables me to see every facet of Jesus and what he represents as the image of 'God', and also recognize that Jesus represents the Christ-potential and divine image in every soul, who awakens to discover he is a son of God, since 'Christ' is that love and light within the soul of man, "Christ in you, the hope of glory". But this is the esoteric teachings of the word, the inward application....perhaps beyond the scope of our current discussion.

Note that however we deify Jesus or assume any degree of divinity to him, he is still the Son of God in the gospel message, to be related to as such, in which faith in that divine Sonship opens for us the same treasurehouse of our own sonship with God, where God is revealed to us as a spiritual truth of being 'Our Father'.

 

[daqq]

I can understand why you do not want to address this passage and my remarks on it:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

When we look at this verse we can see that the Lord Jesus is in the "form" of God.

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He will appear to the inhabitants of heaven:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. And from this verse which describes the ONE sitting on the throne we can know that the Lord Jesus is God:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

Since Jehovah God is the only one who can be identified as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, then we can know that the following words of the Lord Jesus identify Him as God:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

We can know for certain that there are the words of the Lord Jesus because later we can see that the Apostle John knew that those words were spoken by the Lord Jesus. He said:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

What more evidence do you need before you will recognize the truth that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah God?

The problem with your reasoning is that you end up with a "Bar-Jesus" theology, (and not even Trinitarianism says that "Jesus is YHWH"). You have even quoted the passage where the Father says that those who overcome will be His son(s), (Revelation 21:7). The reason I say "Bar-Jesus" theology is because of what is clearly stated concerning Bar-Jesus, who is likewise Elymas the sorcerer, that is, a word sorcerer no doubt because "Bar-Jesus" means "Son of Jesus", ("bar" is Aramaic for "son"), which is exactly what your theology has concluded: that you are become "a son of Jesus", for you have essentially made Jesus into the Father, (which you plainly admit when you say he is "Jehovah God").

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The problem with your reasoning is that you end up with a "Bar-Jesus" theology, (and not even Trinitarianism says that "Jesus is YHWH"). You have even quoted the passage where the Father says that those who overcome will be His son(s), (Revelation 21:7). The reason I say "Bar-Jesus" theology is because of what is clearly stated concerning Bar-Jesus, who is likewise Elymas the sorcerer, that is, a word sorcerer no doubt because "Bar-Jesus" means "Son of Jesus", ("bar" is Aramaic for "son"), which is exactly what your theology has concluded: that you are become "a son of Jesus", for you have essentially made Jesus into the Father, (which you plainly admit when you say he is "Jehovah God").

I noticed that you did not even attempt to prove that anything which I said is in error.

Evidently you were unable to do that!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry,...I'm quite familiar with the centuries old Unitarian/Trinitarian debate, having my own threads on Historical Unitarian and Arian Christianity in the past, plus knowing of other Christological perspectives one may choose from...

Good for you. Since you are such an expert why do you continue to refuse to even attempt to prove what I said about this passage is in error?:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

When we look at this verse we can see that the Lord Jesus is in the "form" of God.

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He will appear to the inhabitants of heaven:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. And from this verse which describes the ONE sitting on the throne we can know that the Lord Jesus is God:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

Since Jehovah God is the only one who can be identified as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, then we can know that the following words of the Lord Jesus identify Him as God:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

We can know for certain that there are the words of the Lord Jesus because later we can see that the Apostle John knew that those words were spoken by the Lord Jesus. He said:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

What more evidence do you need before you will recognize the truth that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah God?

 

[daqq]

I noticed that you did not even attempt to prove that anything which I said is in error.

Evidently you were unable to do that!

That was just done if you understand what was said from the scripture: you are spreading a "Bar-Jesus" theology where Jesus is your heavenly Father. Such a teaching is nowhere sanctioned in the writings and, even worse, relegated to the false teachings of one called Elymas the sorcerer, (who was, again, no doubt a word sorcerer by the context in that passage where he was attempting to persuade Sergius Paulus toward your same way of thinking, [Acts 13:6-7]). You do the same with another of the passages you quote to support your thinking:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).

This passage which you quote to supposedly support your doctrine is actually the author of the Apocalypse himself speaking, ("he who testifies", [these things]), and that is why he says, "Come, Master Yeshua", (for he is the forerunner who goes before the Master). You do not understand what you are reading because, rather than simply believing what is written, you appear to simply be cherry picking whatever suits your need to formulate a privately held doctrine.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This passage which you quote to supposedly support your doctrine is actually the author of the Apocalypse himself speaking, ("he who testifies", [these things]), and that is why he says, "Come, Master Yeshua", (for he is the forerunner who goes before the Master). You do not understand what you are reading because, rather than simply believing what is written, you appear to simply be cherry picking whatever suits your need to formulate a privately held doctrine.

The Apostle John said this:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw" (Rev.1:1-2).​

John says that he bare the record of the "testimony of Jesus Christ." Since John recorded the "testimony of Jesus Christ" then it is the Lord Jesus Himself who testified these things:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

Therefore, we can know that in the following verse it is the Lord Jesus speaking:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Here we see God describing Himself in the same way, as being the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end":

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

God is the only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end", and that is exactly how the Lord Jesus describes Himself. Therefore, common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus is God.

 

[steko]

I think you and other Trinitarians ought to interpret this verse within its proper context, to see your just superimposing a Trinitarian interpretation here. Did Thomas really identify Jesus as 'God'? If you look at the entire chapter 20, you'll notice just earlier when Mary met the risen Jesus and recognized him she exclaimed - "“Rabboni!” (which is to say, Teacher). - notice there is no proclamation of his deityhood. In response Jesus said -



Later after Thomas sees Jesus in vs. 28 he exclaims "my lord and my god!",....John writes as the final passage in his record -

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Notice that a clear distinction is always made between Jesus and the invisible Father-God, which Jesus refers to our God AND his God. Only the One Eternal-Infinite-Deity Father-God....is truly God....and that God is incorporeal. When Thomas proclaimed "my lord and my god",...such was an 'idiom' or 'phrase' of great surprise and adulation, it was not a dogmatic affirmation or proclamation of Jesus being 'God', for to Thomas an orthodox Jew there was only one God, the Father...and Jesus was his Son and Messiah. Such an exclamation was two-fold, such as "my Lord Jesus and my God (the Father)". Remember, to see the Son was to see the Father, so Thomas was praising both the Lordship of Jesus and the glory of God the Father, two persons in one proclamation - this is one way to interpret the passage. - AND I might add, its wholly faithful to the context John always affirms eternal life is in believing in the SON of God, and the God who sent him into the world. Its always a dual-testimony of God and his word(logos), the two bearing witness to each other, for to see the Son IS to see the Father as well! This does not make Jesus the Father(God).

Brother below gives a good explanation below -

I forced myself to endure this video all the way through in order to get his main point, which in the end was repeated like a mantra again and again ad infinitum. Okay, okay, Swami Rasputin! Aargh!

His claim is that when Thomas said to the Lord Jesus, "My Lord and my God", that Thomas was referring to two different persons, one being the Lord Jesus and the other one being God.
He referred to the Greek which says literally, "the Lord of me and the God of me". On this point he is correct.
However, he says the used of the two definite articles in the text proves that Thomas was referring to two different persons.

Several years ago while reading the Psalms, I ran across a line in Psalm 5 that grabbed my attention because it was stated in such familiar language to a verse in the NT which I have paid a lot of attention to over the years. That verse is the verse in question, Joh 20:28.

I read this in Psalms:

Psa 5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

I said, "Wow. I wonder how the Jews translated that verse in the LXX Greek."
This is what I found:

Psa 5:2 (5:3) πρόσχες τῇ φωνῇ τῆς δεήσεώς μου, ὁ βασιλεύς μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου. ὅτι πρὸς σὲ προσεύξομαι, κύριε·-LXX



As one can see, they translated the Hebrew into the Greek,

ho basileus mou kai ho theos mou, which translates "the king of me and the God of me".

But who is being referenced by this verse?

It's obvious by the plain reading of the text that David is referring to YHVH in verse 1.

Psa 5:1 To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David. Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
Psa 5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.


In the Greek King David is saying to GOD/YHVH, "the King of me and the GOD of me".

Is David speaking to two persons or to one?

It is exactly the same Greek grammar as Jn 20:28, therefore Thomas is saying to the Lord Jesus as to one person, "the Lord of me and the GOD of me".

 

[patrick jane]

I forced myself to endure this video all the way through in order to get his main point, which in the end was repeated like a mantra again and again ad infinitum. Okay, okay, Swami Rasputin! Aargh!

His claim is that when Thomas said to the Lord Jesus, "My Lord and my God", that Thomas was referring to two different persons, one being the Lord Jesus and the other one being God.
He referred to the Greek which says literally, "the Lord of me and the God of me". On this point he is correct.
However, he says the used of the two definite articles in the text proves that Thomas was referring to two different persons.

Several years ago while reading the Psalms, I ran across a line in Psalm 5 that grabbed my attention because it was stated in such familiar language to a verse in the NT which I have paid a lot of attention to over the years. That verse is the verse in question, Joh 20:28.

I read this in Psalms:

Psa 5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

I said, "Wow. I wonder how the Jews translated that verse in the LXX Greek."
This is what I found:

Psa 5:2 (5:3) πρόσχες τῇ φωνῇ τῆς δεήσεώς μου, ὁ βασιλεύς μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου. ὅτι πρὸς σὲ προσεύξομαι, κύριε·-LXX



As one can see, they translated the Hebrew into the Greek,

ho basileus mou kai ho theos mou, which translates "the king of me and the God of me".

But who is being referenced by this verse?

It's obvious by the plain reading of the text that David is referring to YHVH in verse 1.

Psa 5:1 To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David. Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.
Psa 5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.


In the Greek King David is saying to GOD/YHVH, "the King of me and the GOD of me".

Is David speaking to two persons or to one?

It is exactly the same Greek grammar as Jn 20:28, therefore Thomas is saying to the Lord Jesus as to one person, "the Lord of me and the GOD of me".

Good job steko!!!

 

[steko]

The problem with your reasoning is that you end up with a "Bar-Jesus" theology, (and not even Trinitarianism says that "Jesus is YHWH"). .

Wrong, Trinitarians claim that the Lord Jesus is YHVH.

Here's one:

The Lord Jesus is YHVH.

Read my verse from Jeremiah:

 

[daqq]

The Apostle John said this:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw" (Rev.1:1-2).​

John says that he bare the record of the "testimony of Jesus Christ." Since John recorded the "testimony of Jesus Christ then it is Him who testified these things:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).

Therefore, we can know that this passage is the Lord Jesus speaking:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Here we see God describing Himself in the same way, as being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

God is the only One who can be described as the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end", and that is exactly how the Lord Jesus describes Himself. Therefore, common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus is God.

That context is way too involved to properly address in this setting with people who are not going to believe what is said anyways, (and unfortunately your reading may only be seen as "common sense" from English translations). However Yohanan the Immerser is the Witness, ("he who testifies these things"), just as he is stated to be so in the opening of "the Gospel of John", (so that ALL through him might come to faithfulness, John 1:6-7).

 

[daqq]

Wrong, Trinitarians claim that the Lord Jesus is YHVH.

Here's one:

The Lord Jesus is YHVH.

Read my verse from Jeremiah:

Sorry but that is not classic Trinitarianism; it is however the Oneness doctrine.

 

[Tambora]

not even Trinitarianism says that "Jesus is YHWH"

This trinitarian does.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That context is way too involved to properly address in this setting with people who are not going to believe what is said anyways, (and unfortunately your reading may only be seen as "common sense" from English translations).

What other translations can you read?

However Yohanan the Immerser is the Witness, ("he who testifies these things"), just as he is stated to be so in the opening of "the Gospel of John", (so that ALL through him might come to faithfulness, John 1:6-7).

No, John recorded the "testimony" of the Lord Jesus so it is the Lord who testified:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw" (Rev.1:1-2).​

John only recorded the "testimony" of the Lord Jesus so when John speaks of "He who testifieth" he can only be speaking of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Tambora]

The Father is YHWH.
The Son is YHWH.
The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

 

[steko]

Sorry but that is not classic Trinitarianism; it is however the Oneness doctrine.

Classic Trinitarian Creeds:

THE NICENE CREED

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
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The Nicene Creed states that Christ is one substance with the Father. If the Father is YHVH, then the Son, being one essence/being with the Father is likewise YHVH.
Trinitarians who actually understand the doctrine know this to be true.
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THE CHALCEDONIAN CREED

"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."
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THE ATHANASIAN CREED

"1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;


4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.



5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.



7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.


9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;


18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.



19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved."

You are mistaken, Daqq!

 

[Notaclue]

I noticed that you did not even attempt to prove that anything which I said is in error.

Evidently you were unable to do that!

Here are four different versions of the same verse.


Phil.2:6

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Study Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to,

Berean Literal Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,


Phil.2:5(N.A.S.). Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Acts2:1-
:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Peace.

 

[steko]

Here are four different versions of the same verse.


Phil.2:6

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Study Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to,

Berean Literal Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,


Phil.2:5(N.A.S.). Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Acts2:1-
:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Peace.

There's a guy named Keypurr who has twenty plus versions and ..... he still doesn't get it.

 

[daqq]

This trinitarian does.

The Father is YHWH.
The Son is YHWH.
The Holy Spirit is YHWH.

Funny thing is that is the exact opposite of what the Trinitarian warshield says, (Scutum Fidei), which it says by default because there are plentiful Tanach passages which clearly state that YHWH is the Father, (for a few examples see Deuteronomy 32:6, Isaiah 63:16-19, and Jeremiah 3:4-19). The only way to maintain your position is to deny that YHWH is the Father according to the scripture. You have essentially demoted the name of the Father, (YHWH), to the inferior title of "God" so that you may elevate Jesus to the status of the Father, (YHWH).

 

[steko]

Funny thing is that is the exact opposite of what the Trinitarian warshield says, (Scutum Fidei), which it says by default because there are plentiful Tanach passages which clearly state that YHWH is the Father, (for a few examples see Deuteronomy 32:6, Isaiah 63:16-19, and Jeremiah 3:4-19). The only way to maintain your position is to deny that YHWH is the Father according to the scripture. You have essentially demoted the name of the Father, (YHWH), to the inferior title of "God" so that you may elevate Jesus to the status of the Father, (YHWH).

So....you don't honor the Son to the same degree to which you honor the Father?

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Acts2:1-
:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).​

Dr. Stanley D. Toussaint, Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary (Acts 2), writes the following commentary on Acts 2:36:

"Here is the conclusion to Peter's sermon. The noun 'Lord', referring to 'Christ', probably is a reference to Yahweh. The same word 'kyrios' is used of 'God' in verses 21, 34, and 39 (cf. Phil. 2:9). This is a strong affirmation of Christ's deity" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament, ed. Walvoord & Zuck, [ChariotVictor Publishing, 1983], 359).​