JEWISH BITTER WATERS

[OCTOBER23]

2Ch 33:8 ...take heed to do all that I have commanded them,
according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

WHY DON;T THE JEWS STILL PRACTICE THIS RITUAL TODAY
BECAUSE YOU MUST KEEP THE WHOLE LAW.

Nu 5:11 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man’s wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
Nu 5:14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman’s hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:
26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

 

[RBBI]

The answer should be obvious. Because it requires a priest and a temple.

A more pertinent question today would be why aren't all the Christians doing the spiritual equivalent that HaShem intended? Yeshua came to reverse the curses and the only way to escape the curse of the bitter waters is to have the rivers of living waters of the Spirit coursing through their bellies, which means covenant (thigh/resting place of the sword) with "her" true husband has not been violated by "her" joining herself to another (god). Peace

 

[Daniel1769]

Tell me what they actually do that is in the Bible. They don't even do the animal sacrifices anymore which was one of the most important things. They don't even require converts to be circumcised anymore. Again, a major issue. They don't believe anything in the Bible.

 

[OCTOBER23]

RBBI-GUY

I know our Sabbath and Feast keeping church fulfills that procedure.

Mt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

[RBBI]

Tell me what they actually do that is in the Bible. They don't even do the animal sacrifices anymore which was one of the most important things. They don't even require converts to be circumcised anymore. Again, a major issue. They don't believe anything in the Bible.

Ever go to a Shabbat service in a Messianic Jewish synagogue? Everything continues on as it has for thousands of years, minus the animal sacrifices and PLUS the knowledge that every little thing He said to do, points to Yeshua. Peace

 

[Caino]

The Jews and Judaism naturally progressed away from the older barbaric practices of evolved traditions like every other religion in the world. The laws of Moses and other elders were purely human in conception and application. As a wise and intelligent leader Moses was simply a reformer of previous and more primitive practices. In all evolved religions Pagan animal sacrifices were a substitute for the previous and common, human sacrifice of children and such.


God never commanded anyone to do these ISIS like things, primitive minds created these ignorant practices in a childish effort to manipulate God and deal with ones own guilt.

Nor are there curses or magic! It's man that changes not God!

 

[RBBI]

I think we discussed this first paragraph in your thread the sun never seems to go down on. Your obvious anti-Semitism you displayed in that thread, blinds you to the truth of the Word of HaShem.

No, they were commanded to do them, because what they did created a framework for US, the heirs of salvation, which is why the Word says everything they did was for our example. If you would quit studying LIFE-less dead things and study the pattern and the Word given to us, you would do well. The animal sacrifices were representative of killing off the carnal beastly natures in man, aka dying to self, as well as prefiguring what would happen with one of them, Yeshua. There is no principle in the Tabernacle construction that does not point to the Son and the works of His Spirit. It's representative of His body, singular, and His many membered body, plural, as well as a timeline. It's perfection leaves no doubt that HaShem is in control.

Yes, there were/are curses, the law never stopped and will not stop until the death of a man's flesh. It does exactly what it's supposed to do, minister death to the hearer (if he's still in the flesh and not the Spirit). The death it ministers is not always a literal death, although ultimately it will be, but the things of death producing actions. And there is no "magic" to these curses being carried out, the evil spirits and demons do their jobs quite well, contaminating the temple.

Witchcraft for example. It's easy to spot such a curse on someone, and usually, though not always, it's a generational curse, and a particularly nasty one to dispatch into the fire when confronted with one in someone, but praise HaShem and His Son who have all power over the works of darkness and have given the same to His sons.

Witchcraft being as of the sin of rebellion, the person engages in one or more forms of it including the New Age counterfeit garbage being spewed out today channeled from demons who tout themselves as ascended (funny they have to "ascend" - Yeshua first descended) masters and what not, and they become so deeply ensnared that rebellion does it's perfect work in them, leading them into more and more darkness (ignorance and darkness being the same thing as opposed to the light of the Son), strengthening their bands of wickedness.
Only the Savior can set them free, whom the Son sets free is free indeed. Peace

 

[Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov]

Tell me what they actually do that is in the Bible. They don't even do the animal sacrifices anymore which was one of the most important things. They don't even require converts to be circumcised anymore. Again, a major issue. They don't believe anything in the Bible.

Before I even go any further, I must point out that the slaughtering of animals made up only a small part of the sacrificial system; grain offerings, drink offerings, incense offerings and monetary offerings greatly outnumbered the slaughter of animals; both in quantity and significance. Even when an animal offering was required for whatever reason; if the person did not own one, or could not purchase one, alternatives from among the other categories were always available. Contrary to YOUR beliefs, slaughtering of animals was not of predominant importance; but giving of yourself to God was.

But on to the point, Vayyiq’ra 17:8-9 states clearly:

וַאֲלֵהֶם תֹּמאַר אִישׁ אִישׁ מִבֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל וּמִנ־הַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר־יָגוּר בְּתוֹכָם אֲשֶׁר־יַעֲלֶה עֹלָה אוֹ־זָבַח׃​

Vaʾăléhem tomʾar ʾiysh ʾiysh mibéyt Yis’raél umin-haggér ʾăsher-yagur b’toḵam ʾăsher-yaʿăleh ʿolah ʾo-zavah:​

וְאֶל־פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד לֹא יְבִיאֶנּוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת אֹתוֹ לַיְיָ וְנִכְרַת הָאִישׁ הַהוּא מֵעַמָּיו׃​

V’el-petaḥ ʾohel moéd loʾ y’viyʾennu laʿăsot ʾoto laHaShem v’niḵ’rat haʾiysh hahuʾ méʿammayv:​

“You will say to them, ‘Any man of the House of Yis’raél or the converts who dwell among them who offers up a burnt offering or any other sacrifice,
but does not bring it to the door of the Tent of Meeting to make it to HaShem, that man himself shall be cut off from his people.’”

God made it perfectly clear that offerings were only permitted to be made at the Mish’kan, and after the building of the Temple, exclusively at the Temple. Without a Temple any sacrifice or offering is 100% illegal.

As far as the circumcision comment, I have no idea which rock you’ve been living under. Any and every male who wishes to convert to Judaism MUST be circumcised according to Jewish Law; which means even if he had been circumcised already, by secular means, he MUST be recircumcised by a legal Mohél in order to convert. Anyone who will not or cannot, even for medical reasons such as hemophilia, undergo circumcision, cannot convert to Judaism. Even if a hemophiliac decides to risk death in order to convert, there is no Rabbinical Court on earth that would allow that.

Conversion to Judaism is not a process of joining another “religion,” it is a process of joining another nation. It is no different than a native citizen of one country moving to another and applying for citizenship. Once a gentile converts to Judaism, he/she is no longer a gentile, but is now a Jew, and will remain such until the day he/she dies. It does not matter whether or not they choose to remain Jewish, as in following the Jewish faith; they will always remain a Jew. There are chr-stian Jews, but there is no such thing as a Jewish chr-stian; because you cannot be both. Once a Jew always a Jew, but the same does not apply to being a follower of the Jewish faith; that is either you do or you don’t, there is no middle ground.

In conclusion, any heretical cult which claims to be Jewish, no names mentioned, that does not require circumcision as a prerequisite to conversion is NOT Jewish, period.

 

[OCTOBER23]

The slaughtering of animals will Resume when the 3rd Temple is built

on the Temple Mount in 2018 - 2021.

But the Antichrist will use that as an Excuse to Stop the Daily Sacrifice.

And next he will Declare himself as the Messiah and Sit in the Holy Place.

 

[Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov]

The slaughtering of animals will Resume when the 3rd Temple is built

on the Temple Mount in 2018 - 2021.

But the Antichrist will use that as an Excuse to Stop the Daily Sacrifice.

And next he will Declare himself as the Messiah and Sit in the Holy Place.

Mazel Tov with that.

 

[glorydaz]

Before I even go any further, I must point out that the slaughtering of animals made up only a small part of the sacrificial system; grain offerings, drink offerings, incense offerings and monetary offerings greatly outnumbered the slaughter of animals; both in quantity and significance. Even when an animal offering was required for whatever reason; if the person did not own one, or could not purchase one, alternatives from among the other categories were always available. Contrary to YOUR beliefs, slaughtering of animals was not of predominant importance; but giving of yourself to God was.

But on to the point, Vayyiq’ra 17:8-9 states clearly:

וַאֲלֵהֶם תֹּמאַר אִישׁ אִישׁ מִבֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל וּמִנ־הַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר־יָגוּר בְּתוֹכָם אֲשֶׁר־יַעֲלֶה עֹלָה אוֹ־זָבַח׃
Vaʾăléhem tomʾar ʾiysh ʾiysh mibéyt Yis’raél umin-haggér ʾăsher-yagur b’toḵam ʾăsher-yaʿăleh ʿolah ʾo-zavah:
וְאֶל־פֶּתַח אֹהֶל מוֹעֵד לֹא יְבִיאֶנּוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת אֹתוֹ לַיְיָ וְנִכְרַת הָאִישׁ הַהוּא מֵעַמָּיו׃
V’el-petaḥ ʾohel moéd loʾ y’viyʾennu laʿăsot ʾoto laHaShem v’niḵ’rat haʾiysh hahuʾ méʿammayv:​

“You will say to them, ‘Any man of the House of Yis’raél or the converts who dwell among them who offers up a burnt offering or any other sacrifice,
but does not bring it to the door of the Tent of Meeting to make it to HaShem, that man himself shall be cut off from his people.’”

God made it perfectly clear that offerings were only permitted to be made at the Mish’kan, and after the building of the Temple, exclusively at the Temple. Without a Temple any sacrifice or offering is 100% illegal.

As far as the circumcision comment, I have no idea which rock you’ve been living under. Any and every male who wishes to convert to Judaism MUST be circumcised according to Jewish Law; which means even if he had been circumcised already, by secular means, he MUST be recircumcised by a legal Mohél in order to convert. Anyone who will not or cannot, even for medical reasons such as hemophilia, undergo circumcision, cannot convert to Judaism. Even if a hemophiliac decides to risk death in order to convert, there is no Rabbinical Court on earth that would allow that.

Conversion to Judaism is not a process of joining another “religion,” it is a process of joining another nation. It is no different than a native citizen of one country moving to another and applying for citizenship. Once a gentile converts to Judaism, he/she is no longer a gentile, but is now a Jew, and will remain such until the day he/she dies. It does not matter whether or not they choose to remain Jewish, as in following the Jewish faith; they will always remain a Jew. There are chr-stian Jews, but there is no such thing as a Jewish chr-stian; because you cannot be both. Once a Jew always a Jew, but the same does not apply to being a follower of the Jewish faith; that is either you do or you don’t, there is no middle ground.

In conclusion, any heretical cult which claims to be Jewish, no names mentioned, that does not require circumcision as a prerequisite to conversion is NOT Jewish, period.

There are Jews who call themselves "Completed Jews". They have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ. You should consider doing the same.

 

[Daniel1769]

Ever go to a Shabbat service in a Messianic Jewish synagogue? Everything continues on as it has for thousands of years, minus the animal sacrifices and PLUS the knowledge that every little thing He said to do, points to Yeshua. Peace

You mean the Messianic Jews that believe in Jesus? If they shouldn't believe in animal sacrifice anyway if Christ is their savior, so this criticism wouldn't apply to them. I don't really care what messianic Jews do. The Jewish followers of Jesus didn't call themselves messianic Jews. They were first called "Christians" at Antioch and kept that name.

The Jews that claim to follow the Old Testament don't actually follow it. That was my point. They don't even do the animal sacrifice. They don't require converts to be circumcised.

 

[intojoy]

The first Christians were a sect of Judaism called the Nazarenes. They began their break from Judaism in 70 A.D. A and the final separation happened at 135 A.D.

 

[Ben Masada]

2Ch 33:8 ...take heed to do all that I have commanded them,
according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

WHY DON;T THE JEWS STILL PRACTICE THIS RITUAL TODAY
BECAUSE YOU MUST KEEP THE WHOLE LAW.

Because Judaism is a dynamic way of life. We have evolved from the common rituals and concentrated more with the Law of the Decalogue. Then rituals anyway, have never been of the realm of compulsory laws even then before the evolution of our minds as rituals are concerned, the concept of the, "You must keep the whole Law" does not include the rituals, although a few of those rituals are still observed today. The "You must keep the whole Law" is a reference to the Decalogue which Paul used to claim we have been released from. (Rom. 7:6) Needless to say, that was to go too far. Besides, the rituals were for the Jews while the whole Law aka the Decalogue was and still is for all the nations of the world.

 

[Ben Masada]

The first Christians were a sect of Judaism called the Nazarenes. They began their break from Judaism in 70 A.D. A and the final separation happened at 135 A.D.

Sorry Intojoy, but you are mistaken. The first Christians were nothing more than Christians. (Acts 11:26) The Sect of the Nazarenes was composed of former Gentiles who had converted to Judaism through the Apostles of Jesus, especially Peter, the one chosen to be the Apostles of the Gentiles. (Acts 15:7) The first Christians turned back to Gentiles for having been persuaded by Paul to become Christians; hence, they were no longer of the Nazarene Sect of Judaism when Paul founder his church.

The point with 70 and 135 ACE is that the whole Nazarene Sect joined as one to the BarCorba war with gusto and were almost 100% exterminated. The Christians for being all the way on the side of the gospel of Paul, did not join the war and escaped the slaughter.

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - The slaughtering of animals will Resume when the 3rd Temple is built on the Temple Mount in 2018 - 2021.

2 - But the Antichrist will use that as an Excuse to Stop the Daily Sacrifice.

3 - And next he will Declare himself as the Messiah and Sit in the Holy Place.

1 - Perhaps this must be a good reason why the Temple has not yet been rebuilt. Certainly, it is not HaShem's will that animal sacrifices be resumed. Didn't Prophet Jeremiah declare that the Lord had never commanded that sacrifices of animals be part of the religion of Israel? (Jer. 7:22) We all know that Jeremiah was not a false prophet.

2 - I am aware that Christians in general and the Catholic Church in particular will try to prevent the rebuilding of the Temple. Myself, personally, if you ask me, I don't care. My position is the same as that of Prophet Jeremiah. The Lord has nothing to do with sacrifices.

3 - And whoever he will be, he will fail just as all false Messiahs of the past have failed. Why? Because the Messiah cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah every after a generation? Obviously not! Then, the Messiah is not supposed to experience physical death but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) The Logic of the matter is that the Messiah is supposed to be after the collective concept of Israel, the Jewish People. If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Jews and Judaism naturally progressed away from the older barbaric practices of evolved traditions like every other religion in the world. The laws of Moses and other elders were purely human in conception and application. As a wise and intelligent leader Moses was simply a reformer of previous and more primitive practices. In all evolved religions Pagan animal sacrifices were a substitute for the previous and common, human sacrifice of children and such.

God never commanded anyone to do these ISIS like things, primitive minds created these ignorant practices in a childish effort to manipulate God and deal with ones own guilt.

Nor are there curses or magic! It's man that changes not God!

Well Caino, look at that! For the first time I looked for something in a post of yours to protest... or refute, and I didn't fine any thing. What I mean to say is that I totally agree with you.

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - Tell me what they actually do that is in the Bible.

2 - They don't even do the animal sacrifices anymore which was one of the most important things.

3 - They don't even require converts to be circumcised anymore.

4 - Again, a major issue. They don't believe anything in the Bible.

1 - To mention just one among many, the Sabbath is in the Bible and we still keep it holy. Surprised!

2- First of all, animal sacrifices is not one of the most important things. So much so that it is restricted to the Temple and suspended whenever the Temple is destroyed. It means, we don't need sacrifices. Most important about sacrifices is that the Lord declared never to have commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. Now, you can see how so important sacrifices are not.

3 - Now, I don't know what you are talking about! All my life as a Jew, I have never heard of conversion to Judaism without the need to circumcise.

4 - Regarding your "major Issue" that we don't believe any thing in the Bible, I am ready to offer myself to be tested. Mention any thing in the Bible aka the Tanach that you think we no longer believe and I will teach you what you need to know. I only ask that whatever you choose, you must provide the proper quote to justify your opinion.

 

[intojoy]

Sorry Intojoy, but you are mistaken. The first Christians were nothing more than Christians. (Acts 11:26) The Sect of the Nazarenes was composed of former Gentiles who had converted to Judaism through the Apostles of Jesus, especially Peter, the one chosen to be the Apostles of the Gentiles. (Acts 15:7) The first Christians turned back to Gentiles for having been persuaded by Paul to become Christians; hence, they were no longer of the Nazarene Sect of Judaism when Paul founder his church.

The point with 70 and 135 ACE is that the whole Nazarene Sect joined as one to the BarCorba war with gusto and were almost 100% exterminated. The Christians for being all the way on the side of the gospel of Paul, did not join the war and escaped the slaughter.

I was taught that the Hebrew Christians left off from fighting because BarCorba claimed to be the Messiah. Which led to the split between Jewish followers of Yeshua and Israel.

 

[Ben Masada]

I was taught that the Hebrew Christians left off from fighting because BarCorba claimed to be the Messiah. Which led to the split between Jewish followers of Yeshua and Israel.

BarCorba never claimed to have been the Messiah. Rabbi Akiva was the one who put up that claim for him but not because, genuinely he meant what he said, but because of the hatred he fed himself with against the Romans and for that matter he meant only to add wood into the fire of BarCorba's enthusiasm. Anyway, Rabbi Akiva or BarCorba, it does not matter. Christians never even conscripted themselves to fight; perhaps for that reason promoted by Rabbi Akiva. The Nazarenes enlisted not only because they did not believe that Jesus had been the Messiah but also and more important than that, there was Israel to protect from enemy occupiers of the Land.