ECT Jesus only “knows” believers who are obedient
- Thread starter ZacharyB
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I know far more about Paul's pep talks than you ever will.
Like this one? ...
If you choose to be a slave of sin, you face eternal death, so, thus, and therefore,
you had better choose to be a slave of obedience leading to righteousness (Romans 6:16)
This is one of Paul's best pep talks!
And I won't insult you by informing you who you are.
Feeling high and mighty about yourself, ay; pep talk go to your fool head? :chuckle:
The chosen leaders of the NT churches were always described as the apostles and prophets!
Yes, they chose the pastors to lead the churches.
But, then the RCC and EOC came along and really messed EVERYTHING up.
Somehow, though, they managed to keep the Trinity as part of their doctrine.
Most everything else was/is "the doctrines of men".
The words that actually passed from the Savior's lips were closer to "You are Rock and upon this Rock," and not "You are 'Peter' and upon this rock."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Please show me if i made an error in what I said about the Father's will:
Here the Lord Jesus tells us exactly what is the will of the Father:
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).
Do you believe that? That those who "believe" in the Lord Jesus will have eternal life and will be raised from the dead? If you believe in the Lord Jesus then you will believe what He said here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
If you are not believing these things then you are not doing the will of the Father and therefore you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).
Do you believe that? That those who "believe" in the Lord Jesus will have eternal life and will be raised from the dead? If you believe in the Lord Jesus then you will believe what He said here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
If you are not believing these things then you are not doing the will of the Father and therefore you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
What specifically did I say that is in error?
Thanks!
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at this passage:
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (ekklesia); and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Mt.16:18-19).
Here the Lord refers to the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," the same kingdom referred to here by the Lord Jesus:
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"
(Mt.4:17).
Since the nation of Israel failed to recognize the Lord Jesus as their promised Messiah the setting up of the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the return of the Lord Jesus to earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
It will not be until the kingdom is brought to earth when the Apostles will "bind on earth" what "shall be bound in heaven." That will not happen until the Apostles will sit upon twelve tribes judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the kingdom:
"That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Lk.22:30).
This speaks of the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus, the time when Israel will be restored to her previous position of being a special people unto the Lord. Therefore the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" have nothing to do with what is happening now within the Body of Christ.
musterion
Well-known member
And how!
There was no separation from the Apostles all the way to AD 1054, when the pope found it necessary to exercise his authority to overrule his bishops, which he did, which prompted the Church to schism between East and West.
It's no accident that the Catholic Church has never once wavered from believing in and teaching the Trinity.
Are you saying that when the Lord said what He did in Matthew 16:18 that He meant Peter, upon whom He would build? Just like how the Aramaic clearly communicates, even more clearly than does the English, which is very clear anyway, that He was talking about Peter himself?
Nope - He was referring to Peter's bedrock solid confession - that He - Christ - was The Christ.
As the next section shows, Peter himself was far from any sort of a stedfast and or solid rock...
Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
He then returns to what He had meant by rock - the stedfastness of their confession that He was the Christ...
16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Again, Paul on this same issue...the importance of the solid rock stedfastness of one's confession.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
One could go on. But obviously, you are one long since enmeshed in your willful mess.
For "Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee" - Deuteronomy 32:18.
musterion
Well-known member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, the testimony of Peter in "bold" is the rock on which the Jewish ekklesia will be built:
"He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (ekklesia)" (Mt.16:17-18).
Foist of oil ... Paul was writing to the "faithful" saints (1:2).
IMO, these were God's elect (chosen ones) who were faithfully ...
walking in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, not habitually sinning, etc.
Not to mention heeding the many warnings about doing such,
and not falling away, and not drawing back, and many etc.
IMO, everything depends on WHO is being addressed.
E.G. do you really think those who are habitual sinning are guaranteed eternal life?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Please show me if i made an error in what I said about the Father's will:
Here the Lord Jesus tells us exactly what is the will of the Father:
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).
Do you believe that? That those who "believe" in the Lord Jesus will have eternal life and will be raised from the dead? If you believe in the Lord Jesus then you will believe what He said here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
If you are not believing these things then you are not doing the will of the Father and therefore you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).
Do you believe that? That those who "believe" in the Lord Jesus will have eternal life and will be raised from the dead? If you believe in the Lord Jesus then you will believe what He said here:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
If you are not believing these things then you are not doing the will of the Father and therefore you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
What specifically did I say that is in error?
Thanks!
I never said you made an error!
I said ...
There are many NT verses about doing the will of God, not just your fav ones!
All of 'em need to be noted.
Do you believe that it could be both Peter's testimony, and Peter himself, but in different ways?
Your position is that the unanimous consistent claim by the One Church for over 1,000 years, that she is built by the Lord upon the Apostle Peter, basing her view on Matthew 16:18, was an error, a thousand-year-long error, that was only corrected when the Eastern Church schismed from the West in AD 1054.
As if such is the first time in history.
Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
That right there comprises thousands (plural) of years of compromise of The Truth.