Jesus is God !

[Trump Gurl]

You do not wish to change your lifestyle to follow Christ

Look who is talking. You continually make false statements AND you have created a false Christ.

 

[Trump Gurl]

The proof of Jesus’ divinity is in the last two chapters of the book of Revelation. According to Revelation 21:6-7, Almighty God reveals himself to us in plain terms: “And he said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.’”

But then, in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:

And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”

Jesus is God

Jesus refers to himself with the divine name I am in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy!

Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). This is in sharp contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: “The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . ” (cf. Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Only God possesses this kind of authority.

Jesus is referred to as “equal” with God by both John and Paul. In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man (cf. Phil. 2:6-10). Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.

Jesus is referred to in the New Testament with the title Lord as it is uniquely applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament. Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament (cf. Ex. 20:10; see also Is. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, quoted both in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).

Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”

Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!

 

[Nanja]

that Knowest the heart to give to every man according to His ways or deeds !

Jesus claims to be God by His words here Rev 2:23

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Yes, He is claiming to be God by this statement " I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts" and to follow " I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Now this is a definite claim to being God if we know our bibles and the scriptures, for only one can lay claim to being able to do that, Its a claim only God can make !

Jere 17:10

10 I the Lord [Yahweh] search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

1 Kings 8:39

Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men )

Solomon is praying to Yahweh Elohim in this context Vs 28

28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O Lord my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:

Now if Jesus is not One with Elohim Yahweh here, then He lied in Rev 2:23. Its to be noted that in the greek Rev 2:23 does have the definite article following the verb eimi and before the verb search

καὶ τὰ τέκνα αὐτῆς ἀποκτενῶ ἐν θανάτῳ: καὶ γνώσονται πᾶσαι αἱ ἐκκλησίαι ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἐραυνῶν νεφροὺς καὶ καρδίας, καὶ δώσω ὑμῖν ἑκάστῳ κατὰ τὰ ἔργα ὑμῶν.

I believe that He is saying,That I am the One and Only as Per 1 Kings 8:39 that Knowest the heart to give to every man according to His ways or deeds !

Again, this is a Glorious Prerogative only belongs to God !

Amen Indeed Brother !

 

[Trump Gurl]

Hey America, Jesus IS God​

 

[Nanja]

If God Almighty could miraculously become or make Himself a Man, What would that Man Be Like, and would He still be God at the same time as being that Man ?

Absolutely Brother ! That Man would be endowed with all the Spiritual Qualities, Perfections and Power of God Himself; exhibiting the Characteristics and Likeness of God flawlessly: Being endued with all Power and Authority as God Himself; having the Power to forgive sin, or to cast into hell !

 

[Trump Gurl]

If God Almighty could miraculously become or make Himself a Man, What would that Man Be Like

Jesus

 

[NWL]

Read the thread and you will find out.

As you keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims. It’s insane that people such as yourself actually believe you have the truth yet refuse to answer basic questions and evidence your own beliefs.

(Proverbs 18L2) “..Anyone stupid finds no delight in discernment, except that his heart should uncover itself..”

 

[Trump Gurl]

As you keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims

Reasoning with dishonest people like you is impossible.

You ask for Biblical evidence: Tons of it has been provided.
Historical and authoritative texts have also been provided.

You turn a blind eye to the proof and then ask for proof. That is total dishonesty.

You don't deserve all the effort that has been put into answering your questions.

 

[NWL]

Reasoning with dishonest people like you is impossible. You are a pathological liar.

You ask for Biblical evidence: Tons of it has been provided.
Historical and authoritative texts have also been provided.

You turn a blind eye to the proof and then ask for proof. That is total dishonesty.

You don't deserve all the effort that has been put into answering your questions.

Again, you make a lot of assertions and claims but never back anything up.

When you clam I am dishonest please explain where I have been and how.
When you say I'm a liar please show where I have lied and explain how.
What proof have I turned a blind eye to?

Please stop asserting things and come to the realization that to try and convince or ven have an intelligent discussion with people you need to provide evidence behind your words, tit is mind boggling you do not see this.

Instead of calling each other out why don't we start again, show me a text you believe shows the trinity or that Jesus is the 'one God' and we can go from there.

 

[beloved57]

As you keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims. It’s insane that people such as yourself actually believe you have the truth yet refuse to answer basic questions and evidence your own beliefs.

(Proverbs 18L2) “..Anyone stupid finds no delight in discernment, except that his heart should uncover itself..”

Read the thread or leave it alone !

 

[Lonster]

The atonement theory was added after Jesus left. We have to remember that Jesus taught his religion among sacrifice minded people, so it’s understandable that they would “speculate” about the meaning of the cross.

lain: John 3:16 Read scriptures instead of just reading your preferred UB from weird men :Z

John 10:17-18​

For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Isaiah 53:1-12​

Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Your oddball gurus are COMPLETELY disdained. Sorry. Fact. You have no standing with any Christian who knows his/her Bible. It is just this ridiculous and just this strong and I simply must say it this bluntly. It is this ridiculous.

 

[Lonster]

I'm aware God cannot die, this is the very reason I contest the idea 'God gave his blood' according to Acts 20:38. As I said to beloved57, the giving of blood is in relation to the death of the thing whose blood is shed. Thus, if God gave his blood according to Acts 20:28 then it was God who died and ransomed his life on behalf of mankind. As you yourself stated "God cannot die", therefore it couldn't have been God who died; this is consistent with the trinitarian perspective that only Jesus flesh died, yet beloved57 and you yourself say God did give his blood which implies Jesus diety died by giving his blood. The whole idea is inconsistent with the scripture, hence why some bible translations make it clear the "blood" is in relation to Jesus and not the God who is the subject of the verse (Acts 20:28 - "It is the flock he bought with the blood of his own Son.").

So you argue with scripture and God? :think:

I'm using both reason and the scriptures hand in hand, I think this is what God would expect of us given the fact he's given us the ability to reason and think. I am taking the scripture for what it states, Acts 20:28 doesn't necessitate the blood to be God's blood, this is undeniable. I've said this previously, but, if I refer to my Son or my brother as my "blood" this expresses they are my relative, a family member, this is all Acts 20:28 is doing; Acts 20:28 states "shepherd the church of God which he purchased with his own blood", the 'blood' is merely in reference to God's Son who is his 'blood' by being his own literal Son. Again, many scholars understand this to be the meaning of the text hence why they reference the Son as the one being spoken of despite the lack of Greek saying it is.

It shows. It is not something you should be proud of. It is a mix of rationalization instead of wrestling over the very word of God for truth. This is a HUGE marked difference between you and others like you, and the rest of Christendom.

I nowhere defined death for you to say I redefined death, I made mention to the sacrifices in the OT and how the animals whose blood was used for the forgiveness of sins had to be put to death, but this is clearly scriptural (See Leviticus 4).

Yet scripture says animal blood wasn't capable AND that God purchased 'with His own blood.' Don't fight with God

If you would answer that God, whether in flesh or not, cannot die, then he cannot give his blood according to the sacrificial manner in which Jesus gave his blood, since, Jesus gave his blood in a corresponding manner to that of the animals in the OT. Jesus giving his blood was in relation to his death, the same way the animals in the OT giving of blood was in relation to their death. I understand the trinity doctrine and how Jesus has two natures according to it, but this does not explain away the inconsistency. If only Jesus humanity died then you cannot say is deity gave his blood, as again, the giving of blood was in relation to his death. If God gave his blood then it implies Jesus diety also died.

I'm more than happy and ready to learn and listen, but one must actually make scriptural points and use logic and reason hand with the bible instead of assertions and man-made concepts, in order for progress to be made.

I do not think I am great, smart, or engaging, all I know is that during the course of discussions with people, such as yourself and beloved57, hard questions conveniently get left unanswered. It's natural for the questioner to presume the person who does not answer the hard questions but cherry-pick the ones they want to answer as 'unable' to answer the tough questions, this does not necessarily mean that they are unable to and I accept they may not want to or perhaps do not have the time, it's just less likely given the circumstances.

I do not ask for anyone to write such long replies, nor do I expect it; in fact, I prefer when people write less. The issue is it's hard to get a point across at times without much speech or written word. This is why questions are a good thing, the issue with you and others is that a single question to a particular point will be asked and get left unanswered, the conversation then gets to a stalemate or becomes circular because of the unanswered question and typically another question will arise to a linked topic which also gets left unanswered, this goes on and on until there are multiple questions which are left unanswered leaving the discussion without progress. In both formal and informal debates it's normal to ask questions and normal to answer questions; please do not attempt to pin blame on me because of your refusal to answer multiple questions ending up with them being tallied against you.

Let's go back to basics, I will pick one of the many questions I have previously asked you and await your answer, hopefully, you'll answer and we can progress from there. The main topic of our discussion was if there are others who are called G-god who are not the 'one God' and who the originator of creation is. You've previously stated Jesus is the originator of creation and that because all things have been created through him he must be the originator because of the strong language used ("All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existences" John 1:3). My question is this, in Hebrews 2:8 it states God subjected "all things" under man and "left nothing that is not subject to him", since God and the Angels would no doubt be included in the "all things", according to your own reasoning, does this mean God and the Angels were subject to Man, or does the "all things" and God "leaving nothing not subject to Man" not inclusive of God himself and the Angels?

 

[Caino]

lain: John 3:16 Read scriptures instead of just reading your preferred UB from weird men :Z

John 10:17-18​

For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Isaiah 53:1-12​

Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Your oddball gurus are COMPLETELY disdained. Sorry. Fact. You have no standing with any Christian who knows his/her Bible. It is just this ridiculous and just this strong and I simply must say it this bluntly. It is this ridiculous.

He did lay down his life and He did take it up again. It was about proving his authority to teach, not pay a theoretical sin debt.

Isaiah 53 was about Israel as a suffering servant. Jesus was forced into Isaiah 53 and other OT prophecies.

 

[NWL]

So you argue with scripture and God? :think:

As I've repeatedly stated, the grammar and context does not necessitate that the blood is in reference to Gods blood, but rather, its in relation to his Son's blood, namely Jesus the Christ. Therefore I'm not arguing with scripture and God, but rather, your wooden interpretation of the text.

It shows. It is not something you should be proud of. It is a mix of rationalization instead of wrestling over the very word of God for truth. This is a HUGE marked difference between you and others like you, and the rest of Christendom.

One cannot understand the bible without reason my friend. Remember it is you that believe in a doctrine that is nowhere explicitly taught or expressed, Trinitarians use their own reason, and logic to justify their beliefs. So to suggest that me claiming I'm using both reason and the scriptures hand in hand is not something I'm proud of is in essence shooting yourself in the foot, as everyone using reason in their understanding of anything in the world.

Yet scripture says animal blood wasn't capable AND that God purchased 'with His own blood.' Don't fight with God

This is beside the point (a strawman) and pure arrogance, as once again you ignore my reasoning and simply regurgitate your belief once again without a shred of evidence. Again, for someone who claims they are a authority on the bible, you are pitiful at justifying your claims and beliefs.

All Christian of any denominations are in agreement the blood of animal did not and cannot fully take away the sins of man. Does the verse necessitate the 'blood' is in reference to his literal own blood, which you have already agreed he does not even have, or is there a possibility the blood relates to that of 'God' the Fathers Son as many other scholars believe and do not deny?

A smart person would agree there is a possibility, a stupid person would claim there is no possibility. I do not deny Acts 20:28 could be suggesting God himself gave his blood, I simply believe its more consistent and scriptural that the 'God' mentioned in the verse is in relation to the Father in Acts 20:28, and the 'blood' relates to that of his Son in the sense of 'bloodline'.

-----------------------------------------------------

I ask question and you fail to answer; I highlight I cannot fully develop my points until you answer, these question then accumulate and you still fail to answer a reasonable amount; I then give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you a single question and you still fail to answer.

My previous statement and question: Let's go back to basics, I will pick one of the many questions I have previously asked you and await your answer, hopefully, you'll answer and we can progress from there. The main topic of our discussion was if there are others who are called G-god who are not the 'one God' and who the originator of creation is. You've previously stated Jesus is the originator of creation and that because all things have been created through him he must be the originator because of the strong language used ("All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existences" John 1:3). My question is this, in Hebrews 2:8 it states God subjected "all things" under man and "left nothing that is not subject to him", since God and the Angels would no doubt be included in the "all things", according to your own reasoning, does this mean God and the Angels were subject to Man, or is the "all things" and God "leaving nothing not subject to Man" not inclusive of God himself and the Angels?

 

[NWL]

Read the thread or leave it alone !

You keep proving to me and others on this forum you are unable to reason. Please do not reply to me or my post unless you bring biblical evidence with your claims. It’s insane that people such as yourself actually believe you have the truth yet refuse to answer basic questions and evidence your own beliefs.

(Proverbs 18:2) “..Anyone stupid finds no delight in discernment, except that his heart should uncover itself..”

 

[Lonster]

As I've repeatedly stated, the grammar and context does not necessitate that the blood is in reference to Gods blood, but rather, its in relation to his Son's blood, namely Jesus the Christ. Therefore I'm not arguing with scripture and God, but rather, your wooden interpretation of the text.

Yes it does. You are special pleading. It LITERALLY says "...purchased with His blood." - The Apostles didn't
have the hang up with this you Arians can't seem to help, or the Apostles would have stated things quite differently. You cannot argue with God and ultimately that is the issue, arguing with God very God, not the majority of Christians. One of the Watchtowers favorite verses is "Let God be true and every man a liar." Sadly they don't follow it, just use it to reason another as 'every other man a liar but them." lain: TRY and see reason. Nobody is trying to steer you wrong. There are VERY good reasons we are Trinit-Arians. Learn why.

 

[Lonster]

He did lay down his life and He did take it up again. It was about proving his authority to teach, not pay a theoretical sin debt.

Isaiah 53 was about Israel as a suffering servant. Jesus was forced into Isaiah 53 and other OT prophecies.

This is purposeful ignorance and isn't good science. It is all confirmation bias BECAUSE you are more familiar with an oddball book than the Bible Caino, and it show. Clearly you never read much of your Bible and worse: you don't know the mind of God. Isaiah was quoted OFTEN in the New Testament and by Jesus. <--READ IT! Quit preferring oddball men and women over and above God very God! It shows Caino!

 

[Idolater]

He did lay down his life and He did take it up again....

Do you mean by this that you believe in His Resurrection? I accept all who believe in Christ as my fellow Christian, even if separated, and only imperfectly united, as this condition is only temporary and not eternal.

 

[Caino]

Do you mean by this that you believe in His Resurrection? I accept all who believe in Christ as my fellow Christian, even if separated, and only imperfectly united, as this condition is only temporary and not eternal.

Yes! There has never been a time in my life when I did not believe in the resurrection.

 

[Caino]

This is purposeful ignorance and isn't good science. It is all confirmation bias BECAUSE you are more familiar with an oddball book than the Bible Caino, and it show. Clearly you never read much of your Bible and worse: you don't know the mind of God. Isaiah was quoted OFTEN in the New Testament and by Jesus. <--READ IT! Quit preferring oddball men and women over and above God very God! It shows Caino!

I know the Bible quite well. Jesus said in the Bible that laying down his life and taking it up again was proof of his authority, and within his power to do so. Don’t know what you are angry about?

Jesus did quote parts of Isaiah, but he didn’t claim that he was the “suffering servant” in the context used in Isaiah 53.

“context of “suffering servant”.


But you, O Israel, My servant, Jacob, you whom I have chosen, offspring of Abraham who loved Me...and to whom I shall say: 'You are my servant' - I have chosen you and not rejected you." (Isaiah 41:8-9)

"But hear now Jacob, My servant, and Israel whom I have chosen!" (Isaiah 44:1)

"Remember these things, Jacob and Israel, for you are My servant: I fashioned you to be My servant: Israel do not forget Me!" (Isaiah 44:21)

"..for the sake of My servant Jacob and Israel, My chosen one: I have proclaimed you by name..." (Isaiah 45:4)

"...say, 'Hashem (God) has redeemed His servant Jacob." (Isaiah 48:20)

"...You are my servant, Israel, in whom I take glory." (Isaiah 49:3)

"But as for you, do not fear My servant Jacob, the word of Hashem (G-d) and do not be afraid, Israel..." (Jeremiah 30:10)

"A heritage for Israel, His (God's) servant, for His kindness endures forever." (Psalms Chapter 136:22)

In Chapters 52 - 54, the prophet is referring to the gentile nations who have tormented and inflicted pain and suffering on the Jewish people. It is THESE nations who will be astounded and shocked to see that God has saved us from their persecution and returned us to our home, Israel: and, that ultimately, God will vindicate us for our suffering The same promises appear in the Book of Ezekiel 36:6-9 & 15 and in Jeremiah 30:8-13.